I've been attempting to contact my cable company recently about several channels I was getting previously with my Hauppauge 2250 in VMC that suddenly are not showing up anymore. But when I reach there Tech Support, they keep telling me that the only way to connect to and receive cable through them is by using their box or their cablecard. They tell me that they do not use or support QAM and that I must use there equipment. First off, I already own there equipment, but I've just decided for my office i'd like to use my 2250/VMC to get what I can get, which was plenty of channels recently.

When I emailed them Monday trying to get more info, I was sent this response.:

"Connecting to a cable operator, like GCI, requires the use of either a cable card from us or a cable converter from us.  Bypassing these methods are not supported.

 As this is based upon requirements of the FCC, and we have in the past shared these requirements with you, we strongly encourage you to properly connect to our cable system."

I have since responded to them again about there support of QAM and was told that again I should use there equipment to get cable, that I should not receieve anything unless I use there equipment and that they are complying with the FCC by allowing us to use there cablecards. I'm just curious if this sounds legit to anyone else? I'm at my office right now so I don't have access to what I specificly wrote them, or what they wrote me back this morning but that is the general idea.

So you don't get any channels unencrypted?  How about locals?

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Chris Lanier
The Green Button Forum Moderator

Try resetting your hardware and then set your tuner up in Media Center again.  I live in East Anchorage.  When I saw your post I went running for Media Center and found none of my QAM channels working.  My HDHomerun was locked up and had to be power cycled.  I then had to set everything up with my tuner software and in Media Center to get things working again.  It looks like GCI encrypted some channels they were previously letting out for free, they do have the locals unencrypted.  It is a sad day, previously we had HDNet, UniversalHD, IFCHD, and a few others that are now gone. 

No..I do in fact get channels. Within the last few weeks I was getting 60+ channels no problem. But then suddenly several of my channels showed No signal. When I did a refresh, suddenly many of the channels I had prior were now showing a lock beside them under "edit channels" in VMC. When I scan for channels, it comes back with 0 channels, and I have to go through and edit each channel manually. After I didn't get these channels any longer, I attempted to contact GCI and ask there support, but I was at first told by support that GCI doesn't use digital channels, then it was (when i finally got someoen who understood digital channels) that GCI wont' release the channel lineup for those channels. Then I got someone who said they don't track those channels, and finally I emailed them the other day and was told that I "had" to use either there box or cable card, and that I CAN NOT use my digital tuner tv or my 2250 to watch cable. When I responded back saying I didn't see why I couldn't, that the FCC clearly provided standards for the use of ATSC/QAM then I should be able to use them to recieve what cable I can. There response to me that I got this morning before leaving for work was that they are complying with the FCC by allowing us to use either there box, or there cable card, and that without them, I should not be able to receive any channels. But I can still clearly scan using either my 2250 set to QAM or ATSC and I have no problems picking up several channels.

These are the channels I was getting, that i'm now not getting:

8.1

8.4

8.5 G4

9.1 Reelz

9.2 BIO

9.4 IFC

10.7 Fox Reality

12.1 Wealth ?

12.3 ESPN University

12.6  Sprout

25.4 Green Network

27.1 ESPN News

27.2 Boomerang

27.4

32.4

33.9

34.1 MTV2

34.2 VH1

34.3 Nick Jr/Noggin

34.4 The N

34.5 Nicktoons

34.6 MTV

39.3

40.1

40.2 Womens Entertainment HD

40.3 IFC HD

44.2 HDNet

44.3 National Geographic TV

45.2 A&E

47.3

48.2 History HD

48.3 AMC HD

49.1 ESPN 2 HD

53.1 Speednetwork

55.1  Universal HD

55.2       

55.3   HD NFL

98.3

98.4 I Life TV

98.6 FN

99.2  Discovery Kids

99.3  Science

99.5  ID

99.6  BBC

99.7  Military

99.8  Discovery Health

It sounds to me like your cable co. has just encrypted a number of their channels.  I *think* they're allowed to do that so long as they aren't encrypting "local" channels (channels you could get via an antenna).  I could be wrong tho.

The FCC does not say they must provide unencrypted channels other than local.  What you are seeing is normal and will continue to happen on other cable providers.  Your opinions are (1) switch cable providers, (2) Get a PC with CableCARD, or (3) Get a set-top box from them and use Media Center and an analog tuner to get the channels in SD.

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Chris Lanier
The Green Button Forum Moderator

Cox is very mum as well and will only say they support QAM.  Ask what channels and everyone goes 'duh'.  However, all I ever got (still get) is the local channels and the occasional VOD.  They don't make any  money with QAM so that's what we get.  However, I told them I'm paying for it as part of my monthy fee and all they could say is that if I'm getting some channels, that's what I am suppose to get.
In fact, the average CS agent doesn't even know what QAM is.

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Yea, I was aware of the fact that they are not required to broadcast all channels, but when I was speaking to there tech support, they treated me like I was trying to steal cable, and kept telling me that you couldn't use QAM because, according to them "you can't" and "we do not broadcast in QAM". This just bugged me because everytime I tried to contact them about it, they just kept pushing me back like I was in the wrong.

I still have there PACE Tahoe DVR box (2 of them) but I was trying to forgo the use of there box since it defeats the purpose of a PVR, if i'm using there DVR. When I tried to switch there DVR box out for a non-DVR box I noticed that there basic box didn't support HD, so you are required to buy there DVR to be able to watch the HD channels you subscribe to.

So if I have to go that route, what are the capabilities of being able to hook a cable box up to a TV tuner. Is it possible to still get HD channels or will I only be able to get SD?

This is the email response i got back from GCI this morning after I responded to them last night.

Alan:

 

We cannot provide a digital channel lineup because our service requires the use of a CableCard, or a settop box, from us to convert our signal to that which your equipment is able to use.  With them you get what you are subscribed to, without you should get nothing.

 

We've been very clear on this.  You also keep saying to get HD channels you have to get an HD DVR from us.  Again, you do not, you can instead get a CableCard.

 

And the requirements for TVs, VCRs, etc to include Digital Tuners has to do with the move to Broadcast TV going digital.  It only makes sense that if the FCC is going to require Broadcast TV this coming February to be digital that new TVs and other devices capable of receiving television signal (not specifically cable signal) should first support such a move.

 

As for the various DVRs we have in our inventory, all the HD boxes have been HD DVRs.  We do have some Standard Definition DVRs that aren't capable of showing HD since they are only SD.

 

The FCC requires that we allow customers to use CableCards instead of our own converters, thereby allowing the customer to buy their own converter or make use of the CableCard slot in their Cable Ready TVs, DVRs, etc.

 

I understand that the CableCard does not have the capability to make use of the various interactive features.  This has to do with the makers of the CableCards which are not affiliated with the CTV industry.  And yes version 2.0 is supposed to change that.

 

However, the CableCard would allow you to not only view HD Channels, but also allow your MultiMedia computer to act as a DVR.

As our intention with being 100% digital is to require the use of a cable card or a settop box from GCI, we are within the FCC's requirements that require us to provide Cable Cards and not just provide settop boxes only.

 

Below in your first paragraph, "so users are NOT required to get a set

    top box if they are so inclined."

 

We don't require you to get a settop box, and by providing the Cable Card we are in compliance with that requirement.

 

And as posted on our internal customer service site:

 

"Service Areas

Every cable market is required to have these CableCARD(tm) available due to FCC regulations.

 

Sounds like the same thing that RCN did in Boston.  We lost a few unencrypted HD channels, like Food Network and HGTV.  A couple of weeks later, only the SD local channels were clear.  Everything, including HD local channels, was encrypted.

Yea, more then anything else, this just irks me that they are saying the only way I can get this is by using there equipment, that I couldn't do it any other way. It's like myself,  and Schwing197 were getting it just fine until they suddenly decided for us we couldn't. Everything was fine up until that point so when companies like this suddenly say "Oh, you can't do this cause we don't support it" when you were doing it minutes ago..it clearly shows me they are just out for the money and not there customer. On top of everything else, it just bugs me the attitude of acting like they don't know anything about it (when they may not have) and then turning around and telling me that it's not possible to do, that it's against the regs, or just out and out treating me like i'm trying to steal cable. Hoping I might be able to get somewhere with them. I have a few contacts out there due to my job here with the military, and i'm hoping someone there can put me in touch with someone who can actually work with me, instead of against me.

It seems to me that they are following the rules.  I know it's not to your advantage or it's an answer you don't seem to want to hear, but after all it is their signal.  We just rent it to watch it as customers. 

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Yep! Im Tall

The real issue is that cable providers are moving their channels off constant broadcast, like QAM, to free up more bandwidth on their network. Their ( at least Comcast's) intention is to move everything to a video-on-demand scenario. That's how they misleadingly tout having the "Most HD" because if it's "available" to watch on demand... it's "counts".

People like you and I with QAM tuners will soon be left in the cold with cable. I really hope satellite providers back the media center enthusiasts and give us a real option. I refuse to buy one of these insanely priced media center machines that vendors sell just for CableCard support. I SHOULD be able to add the tech to my existing machine without being assumed a criminal.

My wife and I have been watching a lot of Netflix Watch Now titles, among other downloaded content. While the cable companies are within their rights to restructure their network, they'll soon lose me as a customer. They offer NO added value for their services. They were going to charge me $15 a month more for my internet access when I was going to switch to satellite for television programming. I pay about $110/mo to Comcast for rental of 1 HDDVR STB, all their expanded channels and HBO/Showtime. I have a total of 26 HD stations. What a rip...

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RAM: 4 GB DDR2 800
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Optical: LG GGC-H20L
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OS: Vista 32-bit w/SP1 and TVPack

troyfrezze:

Yea, more then anything else, this just irks me that they are saying the only way I can get this is by using there equipment, that I couldn't do it any other way. It's like myself,  and Schwing197 were getting it just fine until they suddenly decided for us we couldn't. Everything was fine up until that point so when companies like this suddenly say "Oh, you can't do this cause we don't support it" when you were doing it minutes ago..it clearly shows me they are just out for the money and not there customer. On top of everything else, it just bugs me the attitude of acting like they don't know anything about it (when they may not have) and then turning around and telling me that it's not possible to do, that it's against the regs, or just out and out treating me like i'm trying to steal cable. Hoping I might be able to get somewhere with them. I have a few contacts out there due to my job here with the military, and i'm hoping someone there can put me in touch with someone who can actually work with me, instead of against me.

I would agree that their response could and should of been a bit nicer, but the one thing to keep in the back of your head is that unencrypted QAM channels are a luxury and will get taken away as time goes on.  The FCC or anyone else regulates against them taking channels that are unencrypted now and encrypting them tomorrow.  Most of what they said in that e-mail is factual (some of it not, but for the point of this thread I'll go with it).

At the end of the day they are still offering QAM, it just happens to be encrypted.

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Chris Lanier
The Green Button Forum Moderator

KGaines72:

The real issue is that cable providers are moving their channels off constant broadcast, like QAM, to free up more bandwidth on their network. Their ( at least Comcast's) intention is to move everything to a video-on-demand scenario.

Just to be clear, QAM isn't going anywhere.  All channels, unencrypted or encrypted are still QAM. 

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Chris Lanier
The Green Button Forum Moderator