Hi everyone. First off, I've tried looking for a solution to this problem here, but my searches have come up empty. If you know of a particular thread that may help me, feel free to point me in that direction.

Now, for some background: I'm using MCE2005 (latest updates/Rollup) with two Vistaview Saber DA-1N1-I (each a dual ATSC/NTSC tuner). I live in a building in Brooklyn, NY, that has it's own special cable programming package, and recently they installed an antenna for OTA HD broadcasting. This is fed simultaneously with the cable programming to the individual apartments using the existing single coax outlet (no set-top box is used).

Naturally, I split the connection two more times (with amp) so that I have four coax connections to the same outlet, two for analog and two for digital. Then I attempted to update the MCE TV configuration, choosing Cable > No set-top box > two analog tuners > both digital tuners checked. Everything seemed to be detected fine. Analog cable still comes through as it did before.

My problems are with the new HD OTA channels. All 24 HD channels show no strength (one red bar) in MCE, and if I choose them manually, I get the "No TV Signal" error. By taking each of the two coax cables I have connected to the "ATSC In" on the tuner cards and connect them directly to my HDTV, I confirmed that they each have a steady and strong HD signal. So it's not my cables and it doesn't seem to be related to anything else but the computer.

What could I be missing here?

This blog might help you.

Thanks for the tip, Mitch. I checked those .xml files mentioned in the blog, and they do list the correct physical channel numbers for each channel. Besides, from other posts I've read, MCE might still show good signal strength for channels that have the messed up data. In my situation, MCE is reading no signal strength any of the 24 channels I should be getting.

If anyone else has any more tips, please help! I really want to get this working!

Try bypassing the amplifier and take the feed directly from the wall to the 1st HD tuner.  It may be that the amp is over-boosting the signal and it overwhelms the card.

 

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1: Dimension 9200 - Vista Ult, 2.4GHz Q6600 Core2Quad, 4GB RAM, 160GB, 750GB, 500GB USB, Nvidia 8300GS, PVR-150, HDTV Wonder, Vbox 3560, X360, DMA2100

2: HP m376n - MCE 2005, 2.6 P4 w/HT, 1GB RAM, 250GB, 400GB USB HD, Nvidia 6200, Emuzed MAUI, X360

I use OTA exclusively and dont have cable so I'm unsure how MCE is set up for cable, but when you chose cable in the set-up arent you forcing MCE to use a cable tuning space instead of an OTA tuning space? Cable freqs are different than OTA freqs.

Why dont you try setting it up by selecting OTA only and see if things work. Of course you'll loss all your cable channels, but as a test it might prove something.

Is it possible that since the OTA signals are now mixed with the cable signals, that the OTA signals are being freq shifted into empty channels? Seems like a long shot though.

-dickm

That's a really good point.  It is possible that the OTA HD channels are being converted onto the cable as Unencrypted QAM (different from the ATSC that MC natively supports). 

Find out from someone knwledgeable about the installation as to whether the OTA channels are being touched and somehow changed.

If that's the case, then there are some potential solutions.

dmagerl:

I use OTA exclusively and dont have cable so I'm unsure how MCE is set up for cable, but when you chose cable in the set-up arent you forcing MCE to use a cable tuning space instead of an OTA tuning space? Cable freqs are different than OTA freqs.

Why dont you try setting it up by selecting OTA only and see if things work. Of course you'll loss all your cable channels, but as a test it might prove something.

Is it possible that since the OTA signals are now mixed with the cable signals, that the OTA signals are being freq shifted into empty channels? Seems like a long shot though.

-dickm

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1: Dimension 9200 - Vista Ult, 2.4GHz Q6600 Core2Quad, 4GB RAM, 160GB, 750GB, 500GB USB, Nvidia 8300GS, PVR-150, HDTV Wonder, Vbox 3560, X360, DMA2100

2: HP m376n - MCE 2005, 2.6 P4 w/HT, 1GB RAM, 250GB, 400GB USB HD, Nvidia 6200, Emuzed MAUI, X360

Wow, thanks much for all the helpful answers. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find anyone who knows how it's being fed in. I did find one neighbor who is having the same exact problem in MCE2005, though.

I actually started a discussion with Vista View tech support about this. (BTW, best tech support I've ever had, consistently replies to my emails within a couple of hours, and the person on the other end actually knows what their talking about and seems like an enthusiast). The tech is also inclined to think that the channels are QAM.

He said that if it is QAM, that upgrading to Vista (+ tuner QAM patch +TV Pack) would really be the only way to go. I've been wanting an excuse to upgrade to VMC anyway, so I guess I finally got one. Unfortunately, I don't know yet of anyone living here who is using VMC.

It's just strange to me that my TV picks them up just fine (Panasonic TH-42PZ700u). I have to set the TV to Antenna (no HD channels when set to Cable), and then it picks them all up great. The TV's signal strength meter shows each channel at around 70-80% depending on the channel. Would a QAM feed only show up under the Antenna setting?

 

On your TV:

Do you get the subchannels, if any, that are broadcast with the primary HDTV channels?

What are some of the channel #s that your TV finds?

Does your TV provide a way that you can see the actual HDTV channel# and not the station's preferred channel?  For example, in Boston, Analog channel 5 broadcasts an HD signal on channel 20.  but most TVs read info on the stream and present them on the TV as channels 5.x.  See the chart below for New York stations.

-->-->-->-->-->-->-->-->-->-->-->-->-->-->-->-->-->-->-->-->-->-->-->

Market	Current DMA Rank	Station	Primary Network Affiliation	Tune To	RF Channel
New York, NY	1	WABC-TV	ABC	7.n	45
		WCBS-TV	CBS	2.n	56
		WEDW	PBS	49.n	52
		WFME-TV	Educational	66.n	29
		WFTY	TeleFutura	67.n	23
		WFUT	TeleFutura	68.n	53
		WLIW	PBS	21.n	22
		WLNY	Indy	55.n	57
		WMBC-TV	Indy	63.n	18
		WNBC	NBC	4.n	28
		WNET	PBS	13.n	61
		WNJB	PBS	58.n	8
		WNJN	PBS	50.n	51
		WNJU	Telemundo	47.n	36
		WNYE-TV	PBS	25.n	24
		WNYW	FOX	5.n	44
		WPIX	CW	11.n	33
		WPXN-TV	ION	31.n	30
		WRNN-TV	Indy	62.n	48
		WSAH	Indy	43.n	42
		WTBY	Indy	54.n	27
		WWOR-TV	My TV	9.n	38
		WXTV	Univision	41.n	40

 

If they are converted to QAM, there is a simpler solution in buying an HD Homerun tuner.  It is an external ethernet attached tuner that has the capability to capture Clear QAM and make them appear as OTA digital stations to MC.  It works with MCE2005 as well as Vista.

I love Vista, but it is not an upgrade for most people with MCE2005.  Vista requires a lot more resources than XPMCE ever required.  IMHO if your box is less than a Core 2 Duo, then forget about it.  Wait until you have some other reason and replace your system with a Vista Core 2 Duo or better.  I tried upgrading my older system and it was unsuccessful.  My new system rocks!  Specs for both systems are below.

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1: Dimension 9200 - Vista Ult, 2.4GHz Q6600 Core2Quad, 4GB RAM, 160GB, 750GB, 500GB USB, Nvidia 8300GS, PVR-150, HDTV Wonder, Vbox 3560, X360, DMA2100

2: HP m376n - MCE 2005, 2.6 P4 w/HT, 1GB RAM, 250GB, 400GB USB HD, Nvidia 6200, Emuzed MAUI, X360

What are your other specs? You might have a major upgrade in store to run Vista smoothly. You'll have to find the new TV Pack via bit torrent or some other method. I have it laying around if you ever need it :D.
I highly recommend the HD Homerun route.

Do you know if your TV has a built in QAM tuner? 

Setting your TV to "antenna" would imply that they're still ATSC signals and QAM isnt being used. 

In which case, they could be frequency shifted, which would screw up MCE. As Dan_HP asked, can you tell what frequency the TV is receiving them on? If different than the freqs in the previous posting, that would explain your problems.

However, if they are on their normal OTA freqs, I'm at a loss for why you cant receive them.

It can be only 2 things, they've been remodulated as QAM, or they've been frequency shifted.

-dickm

DanH_HP_m376n:

On your TV:

Do you get the subchannels, if any, that are broadcast with the primary HDTV channels?

What are some of the channel #s that your TV finds?

Does your TV provide a way that you can see the actual HDTV channel# and not the station's preferred channel? 

Yes, I get most of the channels you list, including subchannels. And I didn't see any obvious way in the menus to get the TV to display the physical channels. It seems I may need to dig deeper.

DanH_HP_m376n:

If they are converted to QAM, there is a simpler solution in buying an HD Homerun tuner.  It is an external ethernet attached tuner that has the capability to capture Clear QAM and make them appear as OTA digital stations to MC.  It works with MCE2005 as well as Vista.

I love Vista, but it is not an upgrade for most people with MCE2005.  Vista requires a lot more resources than XPMCE ever required.  IMHO if your box is less than a Core 2 Duo, then forget about it.  Wait until you have some other reason and replace your system with a Vista Core 2 Duo or better.  I tried upgrading my older system and it was unsuccessful.  My new system rocks!  Specs for both systems are below.

Thanks for the HD Homerun tip. But the more I think about it, the more it sounds like it may be frequency shifting. We'll see.

As for Vista, my current setup is with a low-watt Athlon 64 X2 (dual-core) 4200+ and 2GB of RAM. If I upgrade to 4GB, do you think it could handle it?

Mitch, I was able to snag the TV Pack, just in case I need it. Thanks for the offer, though.

I couldn't find a way to get the TV to show the physical channels. That would have been nice. The freq shift makes sense because they recently changed the frequencies for the analog channels, stating that it was to accomodate the new ability to receive these newly available HD channels. And many of these analog channels take up the frequencies listed for the OTA HD channels, so they probably changed those as well.

Quick thought regarding Vista (and TV Pack, if applicable), does it have the ability to scan for available channels like a TV would, or does it still rely on preset data?

If you can find out the correct mapping, it is easy to override the information obtained from the guide provider.  Whoever installed this system should be providing a table of this data.

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1: Dimension 9200 - Vista Ult, 2.4GHz Q6600 Core2Quad, 4GB RAM, 160GB, 750GB, 500GB USB, Nvidia 8300GS, PVR-150, HDTV Wonder, Vbox 3560, X360, DMA2100

2: HP m376n - MCE 2005, 2.6 P4 w/HT, 1GB RAM, 250GB, 400GB USB HD, Nvidia 6200, Emuzed MAUI, X360

Well, got an update. I am still waiting to hear whether the ATSC channels were shifted or not. The person I talked to did say that the signal is untouched, but after I described the problems I'm having, he went back for another look.

Also, I got Vista Home Premium. After installing it, the TV Pack, and the drivers for my tuners, I started setting up VMC. It did the "Scanning for TV Signals" thing, but only came up with 2 analog cable signals. It did not detect any ATSC. So not sure what that could mean...

Well, finally got a table. Here is what our feed is set up like:

Channel ID Number	Broadcaster	Operating Channel Number	MHz	Notes
2-1	CBS	56	723.25	Operating Channel ID Scheduled to change after Feb 09
4-1	NBC	28	555.25
4-2
4-4
5-1	FOX	44	651.25	Includes WWOR-TV Feed
5-2
7-1	ABC	45	657.25	Includes Alternate Programming Feed
7-2
7-3
9-1	MY9	38	615.25	Includes WNYW-TV Feed
9-2
11-1	CW	33	585.25
11-2
13-1	PBS	61	753.25	Operating Channel ID Scheduled to change after Feb 09

So, apparently, the physical channels are unchanged and I should be getting these channels. This just makes it more confusing. Could it be the MHz settings? If so, I did not see that value in the .xml files anywhere.

And the fact that another person in my building with MCE and different digital tuners is having the same problem as myself, just makes it all the stranger. There is just something about this feed that digital tuners don't like. I want to find someone with a Series 3 or Tivo HD and see if they are having issues.

If someone has any other tips, please, by all means share. Thanks for the help so far.