Hi All

Currently, I do NOT have a MCE computer. I would like to discover if a MCE computer is one of the answers to the questions listed below? Also, if anyone knows of a web site that would be more appropriate for a non-MCE system, it would be much appreciated if you could let me know. Thank you for your help.

I want to connect my digital cable set-top box to my computer so that I can watch all my channels (Channel 2 up through Channel 755) on the computer's monitor. I am looking to find out how I can make this work. Unfortunately, my knowledge is quite limited, so please bear with me, and keep your answers at a level suitable for a complete newbie.

My current computer has 1 cpu (2.6 GHz); Win XP Pro, SP-2 (NOT an MCE machine); 3-GB DDR RAM; 20" Digital LCD (4 X 3 ratio) monitor; Evga NVidia GeForce 7800 GS in 8X ADP slot and a PCI bus. (Please note: NOT a PCI-e bus)

1) If I use a PCI-based TV tuner card, how do I watch the high number channels like 216 or 404 on the computer's monitor? Back in the day before cable-ready TV sets, you would set your TV's tuner to either channel 3 or channel 4, and then the cable set-top box's output would be set to the same channel and then you would use the set-top box to tune to channels with a higher number than your TV's tuner could handle. Of course, I think all output from the set-top box was analog back then. Can this method be done with so-called digital cable boxes and the analog computer-based TV tuners that are available or does one need a "digital" TV tuner? Are there "digital" TV tuners that install into the computer's PCI bus? How about digital turners that are USB 2.0 based?

2) Another thought if Item 1) isn't viable; are there computer monitors that have both TV and Computer connectors that allow you to toggle back and forth between the two functions. Presumably, that would mean connecting both the cable company's set-top box directly to the monitor's TV connector (coax, composite, component, etc) and the computer's graphics card to the monitor's computer connector, either VGA or DVI. Of course the downside here is that you couldn't use your hard drive to record shows. That said, I could just rent the cable company's set-top box that includes recording capability or get a TiVo machine.

3) I also have my cable company's HD option in one of my set-top boxes, and I would like to be able have that feature in my computer-based system, too. I believe that tuners that have (??) QAM (??) capability can take an over-the-air HD signal because it is unencrypted. Is the output side of the cable company's set-top box in an unencrypted form so that an HD-based tuner card or a combination computer/TV monitor can show HD? Presumably, the combination monitor could since on one leg, it is, essentially, a TV.
 
Thanks for your help.

1) No problem, you can tune all channels with an analog TV tuner. It works basically the same way you describe - the cable box actually tunes the channel you want, and sends the signal over a specific channel to your PC TV tuner. Yes, you can use a digital cable box with an analog TV tuner, since the digital cable box receives a digital signal, but will give you the option to send out an analog signal on coax, RCA or S-video.

The tricky part is that you need to be able to have your computer change the cable box channels. You accomplish this with an IR remote, and IR receiver that attaches to your PC with a USB, and one or two IR blasters that connect to the IR receiver and then attach to the IR receiver on your cable box. Your PC then learns to mimic the cable box remote, and from then on the computer can control the cable box.

Please note that if some of those cable channels you mention are broadcast in HD to the cable box, you will only receive those signals as SD, not digital HD.

And yes, there are digital tuners available, but they won't do much for you on cable. You can use a digital (ATSC) tuner to pull down HD signals over the air using an antenna.

2) Don't know for sure, but most monitors I have seen only have inputs via VGA and/or DVI, and cable boxes generally have coax, S video, and/or composite outputs. Perhaps there are some that cross over, I'm not sure.

3) The output side of the HD cable box remains encrypted. You will not be able to connect that to a standard digital TV tuner and get a signal. You would need a cablecard, which would not be supported on your current PC. You can investigate HDHomeRun.

Hi AZCowboy

Thanks for the help.

1) You said:
>...The tricky part is that you need to be able to have your computer change the cable box channels.<
Question: If the output from the digital cable box is being sent out via, say channel 3, to the PCI-bus based analog TV Tuner which is also set to channel 3, couldn't I just use the cable company's set-top box's remote to change channels on the set-top box. Or, do you mean that the cable company's set-top box does NOT have a designated output channel?

If that is the case, then I am back at square one. The computer-based analog TV tuners that I have seen only have about 125 channels. How would I select channel 404 if the tuner card does not recognize that high a number?

2) You said:
>...Don't know for sure, but most monitors I have seen only have inputs via VGA and/or DVI<
Answer: I found an NEC monitor, AccuSync LCD24WMCX that has both television and computer monitor inputs. Presumably, it has a method for switching back and forth. I downloaded the manual, however I haven't had the time to read it yet.

3) You said:
>...The output side of the HD cable box remains encrypted.<
Question: I presume that by "encrypted" you mean that the output is only in HD, so I would need a computer based HD tuner to send the HD output to the computer's monitor. Does anyone make a computer-based tuner that could be plugged into the PCI-bus or into a USB 2.0 port? If so, do you know of a good one?

Thanks for the help.

1) The former. MCE could tune to channel 3, and you could change the cable box channel with the cable box remote and view channels above 125. But this is only useful for watching Live TV. A major benefit of MCE is to time-shift, and record material to watch later, and skip commercials. To do this, you need the computer to be able to control the cable box. There are other issues too, like if you use MCE's EPG, find a program to watch, you  would have to change remotes to change the channel.

If  you are only looking for Live TV, I suspect MCE is overkill. I think most TV Tuner cards include basic TV watching type software that would suit your needs.

2) Interesting. Post back what you learn.

3) No, not that it is simply output in "HD", but it remains encrypted QAM, which no standard digital "HD" TV Tuner can deal with (apparently due to DRM issues). You would need a Cablecard tuner, provided by the cable company, and those will only work with specific and brand new motherboards.

Also, the TV Tuner does not send output to the monitor. The TV Tuner function is an input-only to the computer. You would use a video card to output to the monitor.

Hi AZCowboy

You said:
>2)...Interesting. Post back what you learn.<
Answer: I plan to read the manual this weekend. If that happens, then I shall post my findings on Sunday night.

You said:
>3)...No, not that it is simply output in "HD", but it remains encrypted QAM, which no standard digital "HD" TV Tuner can deal with (apparently due to DRM issues)<

Question: How does my regular HD TV deal with this, then? The HD output from the cable company's HD digital set-top box outputs to my TV which shows HD programs. So, if HD is still encrypted on the output side of the set-top box, how does my TV solve this issue? Does the TV have a tuner that just isn't manufactured for use in a computer. This doesn't appear to be a technical issue; rather it is probably a potential lawsuit issue.

Thanks for the help.

3) You are getting beyond my knowledge to explain. I suspect, but don't know, that the QAM standard does not permit unencrypted signals between intermediary devices to provide DRM assurances to the content providers. My guess is that "HD ready" TVs (or any display devices) must incorporate a QAM decryption chip, even if they don't have a tuner.

Perhaps someone more knowledgable will come along and clarify.

Hi AZCowboy

I found that the NEC AccuSync (LCD24WMCX) computer monitor does NOT have a TV tuner. It does have VGA/DVI connectors for a computer hook-up, and it has component video and HDMI connectors for a DVD/TV hook-up. There is a hardware switch so you can toggle back-and-forth between using it as a TV and using it as a computer monitor. It has the usual computer resolutions such as 1024 x 768 and 1280 x 1024 when it is in computer mode, and it has TV resolutions, for example, 1080i and 1080p when it is in TV mode. BTW, the LCD24WMCX is 24" 16:9 wide-screen display. Forgot to mention that the LCD24WMCX has built-in speakers.

In another experiment, I installed an ATI "TV Wonder 650" board in my computer's PCI bus. Then, I connected the cable company's incoming coax cable directly to the input on their digital set-top box. Next, I ran a coax cable from the "RF Out" on the set-box to the TV/Cable input connector on the "TV Wonder 650". Then I opened the ATI software program, "Catalyst Media Center", and in its TV mode, I set it to Channel 3. At this point, any channel that I selected on the set-top box would display on the computer's monitor. This included high number digital channels such as 404 and 500. I can also watch the HD channels such as 190, too, but I presume that the output via the "RF Out" is standard 480i. BTW, my comuter monitor is a Dell 20", 4:3.

Anyway, I decided to buy the LDC24WMCX, and I shall run both it and the Dell 20" from my n'Vidia GeForce 7800 GS graphics card when the NEC is in computer mode. The LCD24WCMX will be connected to the GeForce on its computer side and to the cable company's set-top box on its TV side. I shall use a splitter on the cable company's incoming cable with one leg going to the set-top box and the second leg going to the "TV Wonder 650". The set-top box can record up to two programs, simultaneously, and I can watch the output in the LCD24WCMX' TV mode. At the same time, I can watch/record channels 1 through 99 on the "TV Wonder 650".

I know this thread is about a week old, but i just wanted to help clarify some things.  The reason that you won't be able to record/view HD on the computer is due in part to both hardware and software limitations.  On the hardware side, the set-top box  (depending on the model) will output HD from either the component cables or hdmi.  Component cannot presently be used because while the box outputs in HD, presently most TV tuner cards do not have a component input-thus, the best you'll get is standard definition, as you observed. The software limitation is that ouside of component, most cable broadcasters set broadcast flags embedded in the programs that indicate whether the programs are able to be recorded.  This is the encryption spoken of earlier--if a program is flagged, then the copy protection will not allow it to be recorded in any media center applications.  The majority of cable companies are supposed to send the HD versions of broadcast channels (ABC, CBS, etc) unencrypted, but no such mandates are in place for the cable channels. 

Hi Kmac1914

Thanks for the clarification.

A little bit more clarification - if you are using a digital cable box you should connect it to your TV tuner card on your PC via the s-video cable - not an RR cable.  S-video does not do HD but if your cable box is HD then it may downrez the display to SD (akak 480i) - likely with letterboxing.  There is a product that is being released any day now called the Hauppauge HD PVR that will allow have component inputs.  This will allow you to use your computer to record HD from pretty much any source.  The downside is that it is unlikely to work with WinXP MCE at all although this functionality may be added to Vista some time in the future.  However it should work with competing products, such as SageTV and Beyond TV from day 1.

Hi Wayne9

You wrote:
<... if you are using a digital cable box you should connect it to your TV tuner card on your PC via the s-video cable - not an RR cable...>

This was just a test, and not a permanent connection. Coax cable was what I had, so it is what I used for the test.

You wrote:
<... Hauppauge HD PVR...  will allow you to use your computer to record HD from pretty much any source...   downside is that it is unlikely to work with WinXP MCE...>

Thanks for letting me know about the Hauppauge HD PVR. I don't have MCE so that isn't a problem for me. I don't have Vista, either, and I won't until I buy my next computer in approximately 2-years, maybe longer. So it either works in XP, Pro or it doesn't exist for me. Of more interest, to me, is whether or not, it works in Linux.

You mentioned both Sage TV and Beyond TV. Which one do you like better? I'm not so impressed with ATI's Catalyst software. It seems like the usual Windows kludge that constantly gets tangled up in its own code. For example, the Electronic Program Guide frequently can not connect to its source, Titan TV. If it doesn't connect, do not go trying to close it. In my case, it will, usually, hang the computer if I try to shut it down at this point. And when it does connect, it takes forever to update. The EPG doesn't open into a program grid like you get when you independently connect to the Titan web site. Actually, it doesn't open into anything at all. The informaiton box telling you what is currently playing on the active channel goes away in 2 heartbeats, and there doesn't appear to be any way to get it back unless you switch to another channel and then back, again. The list goes on and on, but you get the idea. Its the usual that the info on the box with the TV Tuner card reads way better than the reality.

Okay now. Here it is 5 months later and Your question is still the hot topic in everyone's mind.
I have the same issue....
I have used allot of different tuner cards for my PC. RF/QAM/ATSC/NTSC. Nevada to be exact. And 20 miles out of town to boot. Since I live so far out of town the signal is pretty week and scratchy by the time it hits my tuner card. So I opted for some way to get the set top box to get me a better signal.

I have tried:
1. Hauppauge PVR-150
2. Hauppauge HDR-1600
3. Pinnacle PCTV To Go HD Wireless
4. Slingbox PRO-HD Wireless
5. ATI 650 HD USB
6. ATI HD 3650 HD


Out of all of these the PCTV worked the best with the set top box.
The Slingbox did not do what I thought it could do. In a nutshell it was just a glorified media center extender for the Internet. And it did not work with Vista Media Center.

Pinnacle PCTV To Go HD Wireless. Red/Blue/Green-aka High Def video.(You need a Network Router hooked up to your computer for this. -Lynksys router kept crashing my system so I got a Netgear Router and it had worked ever since.) PCTV To Go HD Wireless gave me the best sound and signal. It controlled the set top box....only after I bought the $30 Pinnacle Windows Media Center Remote Control. It controlled Media Center and the set top box with no problems. I t also comes with its own TV viewing program, but I only use MCE in Vista.
 
The downside of the Pinnacle PCTV To Go is that it does not do surround sound. Onle red/white stereo.

HAVA at MyHava.com does do the same as PCTV To Go and it has support for Coaxial SPDIF (5.1 surround sound input.) Best Buy was out of stock at the time. Next payday I will be buying this one.
Bottom Line....
If you are going to be using a set top box then use Pinnacle PCTV To Go HD Wireless or Hava.
There is a website dedicated to getting the high def feed recorded onto your computer via IEEE 1394 Firewire and a setup like the Hava or PCTV. The firewire is an extra wire to hook up in conjuction with the other stuff.
The best your going to record in the meantime with anything is 580i....DVD quality. The IEEE 1394 firewire is the only way to record the 1080i.
If you have come across any other threads with this issue please do tell.