Any new news on this?

ohseedee:

Any new news on this?

I don't have any news, but I wanted to post what my system is doing.  I might be wrong, but I suspect these issues might be all tied together...

As you know, with 955519 installed, it seems that sometimes VMC's scheduling engine starts using all of the CPU resources available to VMC.  Based on what I have seen, it looks like any time from about 1 minute to 5 minutes into a recording, VMC's scheduling engine starts to churn away at "something".

During this time, due to the system resources being overloaded, recordings can be produced that contain glitches in them.  When these are later played back, the glitches can cause the "digital audio" blue screen to appear, while the audio continues.  My crude understanding (based primarily on observation) is the digital audio scenario occurs when the video bitrate drops below some threshold.

To make matters worse, VMC also reviews Recorded TV to generate thumbnails.  It seems that VMC sometimes gets another process "stuck" when attempting to generate thumbnails for these glitchy recordings.

Unfortunately I don't believe this problem ends here.

After 955519 was installed for a few weeks, I started to notice more and more recordings outright failing to record.  The recording history contains very confused, entries.  The log seem to suggest there are actually 2 independent scheduling processes running simultaneously.  Often I will see things such as:

• An entry stating a show started to record.
• An entry stating a second show started to record (even though I only have a single tuner).
• An entry stating that the first show was stopped due to a lack of audio or video data.
• An entry stating that the second show was stopped due to a scheduling conflict.
• Quite often there will be 2 entries stating essentially the same thing, although they will be logged several seconds or minutes apart.  This is what makes me suspect dual scheduling threads are running.
• It is almost as if there are two scheduling engines running and each one sometimes ends up with a slightly different planned schedule.  When this happens, they both fight for system resources (the TV Tuner) and totally screw things up.

To make matters worse, after I uninstalled 955519, my system is still experiencing recording errors.  Looking at the logs, no longer does it look like there are two separate scheduling processes running (or if there is, they are trying to do the same thing so they don't "fight"), BUT it looks like the overall schedule is now corrupt.  Most of the recording errors now are simply 771 errors.  Can anyone provide details as to what an error 771 actually is?  Tim?

What happens now is anywhere up to 40% of my recordings fail to record with a 771 error.  I end up with a blank 0 KB dvr-ms file that obviously won't play.  Inside Recorded TV, the recording does show up, but there is no icon (just the blue blank icon).  Sometimes there is no actual dvr-ms file, but the recording STILL shows up in Recorded TV (until I manually delete it using VMC).  Also, there is the following type of error for each failed recording that ends up in the event log:

Log Name:      Media Center
Source:        Recording
Date:          29/11/2008 8:58:02 PM
Event ID:      8
Task Category: None
Level:         Warning
Keywords:      Classic
User:          N/A
Computer:      HTPC
Description:
100 Greatest Discoveries was not recorded. There was an unexpected failure. (Error code: 771)
Event Xml:
<Event xmlns="http://schemas.microsoft.com/win/2004/08/events/event">
  <System>
    <Provider Name="Recording" />
    <EventID Qualifiers="0">8</EventID>
    <Level>3</Level>
    <Task>0</Task>
    <Keywords>0x80000000000000</Keywords>
    <TimeCreated SystemTime="2008-11-30T01:58:02.000Z" />
    <EventRecordID>13620</EventRecordID>
    <Channel>Media Center</Channel>
    <Computer>HTPC</Computer>
    <Security />
  </System>
  <EventData>
    <Data>100 Greatest Discoveries was not recorded. There was an unexpected failure. (Error code: 771)</Data>
    <Binary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inary>
  </EventData>
</Event>

 

Note that I cannot confirm that these 771 errors are caused by a corrupt recording schedule (Recordings.xml file) nor that the recording schedule was corrupted by having 955519 installed.  What I do know is prior to having 955519 installed I would see a 771 error every now and then (maybe 1 or 2 every 3-6 months), but now I am seeing up to 6 per day.

Searching the web, I can see there are many recent discussions regarding error 771 and Media Center (noting that many of these seem to be related to dual tuner systems).

The other thing I know is right now Media Center is really not working out for my family.  My wife and children are very unhappy that they keep missing their favorite shows and I am very frustrated in that I haven't found a solution to these problems.  I could try erasing the entire Recordings.xml file and rescheduling all of the recordings (again), but this is an extremely time consuming task that ultimately leads to a huge amount of work after doing it (largely because Media Center looses track of all of the existing series recordings and it won't stop recording until the hard drive is 100% full since all series limits are ignored initially).

 

Tim, can you provide us with some information on these issues?  What are 771 errors?  Is 955519 able to corrupt the Recordings.xml file?  If so, is there something we can do to manually clean it up to get our systems to work properly again?  Are the current recording issues my system is experiencing totally unrelated to having 955519 installed previously?

It looks like they've released a fix for the problem as long as you don't use Extenders.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/959485

However, if you are using Extenders in conjunction with Digital Cable Tuners, they "recommend that you uninstall update 955519 and that you NOT install update 959485" (emphasis mine). I have 3 Xbox 360s being used as Extenders, so I guess I'll have to wait.

Yogi

Yogi76:

It looks like they've released a fix for the problem as long as you don't use Extenders. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/959485 However, if you are using Extenders in conjunction with Digital Cable Tuners, they "recommend that you uninstall update 955519 and that you NOT install update 959485" (emphasis mine). I have 3 Xbox 360s being used as Extenders, so I guess I'll have to wait. Yogi

HAHA...  Why bother releasing an update at all if it can only be applied on extenderless setups???   Sorry, but I'll pass on installing whatever update WILL be for us..  Right now, after uninstalling 955519, my system is working well.  Don't fix what ain't broke.

I'll be much more careful about installing ANY media center related updates after 955519.  Basically only installing what I absolutely have to... or what provides new functionality that I really want...  either way, I'll be researching the heck out of it before applying it.

I cannot believe this is still an issue. So let me see if I have this right... Msft released an "update" that caused major issues with recoding. Instead of taking down the "update" and fix it they release another "update" that "fixes" the previous "update"...as long as you don't use the full features of VMC (extenders). This is nutes. The only reason I made the switch from Beyond TV to VMC was the cable card support. Beyond TV did extensive beta testing before releasing an update...how could Msft release such problematic updates. With the DRM free hauppauge HD PVR out, I'm not sure how long I'm going to stick with VMC.

I thought I should post an update on my 771 errors.

About a week ago I noticed that some of my scheduled series were ignoring the recording limits (2 or 3 recording limit) and VMC was going gangbusters filling up the hard drive.  At the same time, some other scheduled series simply could not find ANY episodes to record (when I clicked on the series there was nothing scheduled).  Even changing the series settings, these particular series were not able to find anything to record.

So, I started deleting and recreating any series that was showing any problems (including failure to record with 771 errors, ignoring limits and not able to find episodes).

Last week roughly 30%-40% of our recordings were failing per day with a 771 error (leaving us with a 0kb dvr-ms file that would not play) and as of the past 4 days only a single recording has failed (still with a 771 error).  Hopefully this isn't just a fluke.

I'd still like to have 955519 installed since it gets around the annoying CGMS-A problem, but I'm not sure if a combination of the two updates will leave us with a stable, functional VMC that can properly record.

Have any of you tried recreating your series recordings that are having problems?  Did it help?

Just wanted check if there was any resolution to this issue.. or maybe another thread.

Seemingly unrelated but maybe not: installing the TV Pack (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=836519&page=44 posts 1311 and 1319) incurs the same issue of "second show not recording" as reported here with cumulative update.  As documented in post 1319, this appears to be (at least with TV Pack) a side effect of being unable to start recording when an existing stream buffer is ongoing. For example, those of you who have this problem: if you are watching Live TV and hit the Record button, does recording start? I get a "no tuner found" error (which of course is wrong since I am watching TV at that very moment), which is directly related to my inability to record a second consecutive show.  So, possibly a common root cause between cumulative update and TV Pack? More details over at the link provided.

Jeff

P.S. oddly enough, the cumulative update is now working and does not exhibit this behavior once SP1 was installed (but NOT the TV Pack!) along with various other hotfixes. The link has a complete list of updates.

I know I'm still experiencing one or two 771 recording failure per week (we probably record about 20 shows per week between the 4 of us using Media Center).  I still have not reinstalled 955519, nor have I installed 959485.

There is a thread where Microsoft discusses their patch (959485) in more detail (and don't recommend it for my application), but they don't clarify what these patches actually do nor how they work or affect us.

http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/thread/314423.aspx

Hi HT Slider -

KB955519 (Oct 08 Windows Media Center Cumulative Update) introduced an issue that affected doing back-to-back recordings on systems with digital cable card tuners.  KB959485 addresses this on the host PC so back-to-back recordings record and playback correctly.  As noted in the Known Issues section of KB959485, there is still an issue with playback over Extenders.  A fix for the extender scenario and the KB959485 fix will be released in the next Windows Media Center Cumulative Update.

Initially, the host PC and extender issue were thought to be the same.  It wasn't until we were testing the KB959485 fix that it became clear there were 2 separate issues here.  We debated holding off on the host PC fix until we had the extender fix, but decided to go ahead and release it to provide relief for host PC scenarios as quickly as possible.

The KB articles provide additional info on what issues are addressed, especially for the Windows Media Center Cumulative Updates.

 

Tim/all, KB959485 states that it is specific to the issue of video lost on second consecutive recording. The issue with TV Pack is that the second consecutive recording fails to start, period, so clearly 959485 is not answer to TV Pack recording and probably the TV Pack and 955519 cumulative update 2nd recording issues are unrelated after all.

Interesting to note that 955519 recording issues disappeared (for me) upon installation of SP1. I'd love to take that further and see if 2nd show recording problems under TV Pack disappear if SP1 is NOT installed, but since SP1 is a prerequisite I'll never know. But meanwhile SP1 + 955519 is working (and somehow cut the time required to display Recorded TV thumbnails in half, thank goodness).

Jeff

TimSchreck-MS:

KB955519 (Oct 08 Windows Media Center Cumulative Update) introduced an issue that affected doing back-to-back recordings on systems with digital cable card tuners.  KB959485 addresses this on the host PC so back-to-back recordings record and playback correctly...

Tim,

Thank you for that information, however I still don't know if this would fix the issues I was/am having.

My system does not have a digital cable card tuner, but when I have 955519 installed I keep having issues where the second recording (back to back) regularly produces "digital audio service" blue screens without any video as well as regular 771 outright recording failures.  These problems seem to occur within roughly a 0-5 minute window into the second recording when back to back (I have monitored the system while recording to see when 771 errors occur plus the "digital audio service" blue screens occur during playback in this same 5 minutes window; the 771 errors actually seem to occur closer to the start of recording).

Whenever I uninstall 955519, the "digital audio service" blue screen immediately goes away, but the 771 failures don't immediately go away (and I am still seeing them).

Will a combination of 955519 and 959485 resolve these issues with my non-cable card system?

Note I have a PVR-250 tuner and it is recordings with it that have these issues. 

The other question I have is should I purchase a new "Vista Certified" TV tuner to replace my old PVR-250?  Will that enable 955519 with or without 959485 to work properly? 

The PVR-250 is listed as Vista compatible, but is not Vista Certified, nor does it have real Vista drivers available for it (I believe it uses XP drivers, automatically downloaded from Windows Update in Vista).

ah, OK.  This is a bit of a twist.  Can you provide additional information on your system, tuners, etc?  Once I understand the enviornment/repro steps I'll be able to see if we can repro this in-house.

Specifically, want to verify this is on SP1/TVPack with latest WU updates, what tuners you're using and whether this only happens on back-to-back recordings on same channel or different channels.  If on system with digital cable card, does it matter if recordings are HD or SD?

Hi HT -

The issue we were aware of with KB955519/KB959485 regarding back to back recordings was specific to systems with digital cable cards.

You mention you see this with recordings from PVR-250 tuner.  Does this mean you have multiple tuners and not seeing it on the other tuners?

Tim, I just experienced the consecutive shows missing video but capturing audio (which plays back as if slightly "fast forward") for the first time under SP1 and cumulative update.  Both this one instance and the TV Pack issue only occur when recording back-to-back shows , through single ATI OCUR, same channel, and both digital SD and HD. I had restored a pre-TV Pack backup and was only on SP1 and cumulative update and up till now was okay.

However, I have never tried KB959485 (because it appeared to be a different problem in TV Pack, and up to now I hadn't had any problem in SP1). So I'm going to install that now and let the system run a bit, and I'll report back.

I don't want to take the thread OT too much, but since you asked: second (or more accurately, every other) consecutive show on same channel set to record in TV Pack thru ATI digital tuner fails. Also, while watching Live TV and pressing record, VMC thinks about it for several seconds, lots of disk grinding, then a "Tuner Not Found" error (even though most of the time the show is still playing!).  This seems to be specific to TV Pack, as restoring to SP1/no TV Pack got things back to normal.  My two cents is that TV Pack won't record an ongoing buffer stream. My evidence for this is if while watching Live TV under TV Pack I hadn't hit Record but had instead backed out to the Guide (and on-screen show disappear) and hit Record, then recording starts no problem, and then I can go back to the Live TV display or flip over to Recorded TV and watch from there. Also, I can change the channel while still in Live TV and the channel changes fine (with the No Tuner Found message still displaying!), so clearly the No Tuner Found error is wrong.  My hypothesis about the second show not automatically recording under TV Pack is that since a stream is currently being recorded, when the command to start recording "another" show is received, you're back to the same situation as not finding a tuner when trying to record Live TV (i.e. already receiving an ongoing steam)...but that's just an educated guess. It happens on HD or (digital) SD, no matter what drive I point Recorded TV to, and whether or not I have writeahead enabled on the drive. ALWAYS consecutive shows on the same channel.

EDIT: okay, 959485 fixed the cumulative update consecutive show audio-only problem but of course hosed the extender. For the moment I've just restored everything back to pre-TV Pack, pre-cumulative update, pre-SP1 while M/S works this out.  I do have an available image of my system with SP1, TV Pack, and 955519 installed so if you have any specific questions or want me to try something to help the M/S team I can easily restore that image and do that. I'm also considering installing SP1 and TV Pack over a basic installation WITHOUT first installing all the other patches like 955519, because what if the fault isn't with TV Pack at all but rather that TV Pack inherited a problem from one of the other fixes? (EDIT: see post 327450 for the answer to that)

Jeff