JessZahn:

It's not fixed in Vista. We will fix it as soon as we have the data. I can't promise a date, but I will say it is actively being worked on.

JessZahn,

Thank you for the update.  Please continue to push MS for this fix.  I invested a lot of $ and bought a dedicated Vista box for my HD setup (bought a dedicated MCE remote).  Now with this lack of functionality, I am at the verge of dumping MCE (even though I love it better than any other programs) because I lose over 50% of my ability to record shows.  So far, both BeyondTV and SageTV doesn't have this issue and I trial testing these other software.  I hate to spend another $80 when I bought the system just for Vista MCE.

Also to the group... has anyone tried this hack below?  Does it work?

http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/thread/201266.aspx

Thanks

 

I tried the hack and it works temporarily. Go into registry and change "PC:48091" to "PC:Your Aria Code" in both sections headend= and  trProviderId=

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Media Center\Service\EPG]

"headend"="\"PC:48091\""

 

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Media Center\Settings\ProgramGuide]

"strProviderId"="\"PC:48091\""

 

It will work until it neeeds to download a new Guide and it will say "guide not avaiible you need to resetup your guide."

Steinway:

Why doesn't MS just do like everybody else and let you scan for channels, and then download the guide data associated with those channels? Wouldn't that fix the probelm, as opposed to the setup being driven by the available guide data and then no additional "scanning" is available because there is no guide data?

Yeah, that's another way to do it. I'm unsure why it was initially done the way it was - I joined the team right when we were releasing the first version of our software that included support for ATSC - and since then, it just hasn't been a high enough priority to change. There are a lot of ATSC users on TGB...but in general, not the rest of the world, and changing the ATSC implementation is a considerable amount of work that just doesn't have a great enough benefit. However, it is worth it to get the subchannel guide data, so that's what we're working on.

motifdesign:

JessZahn:

It's not fixed in Vista. We will fix it as soon as we have the data. I can't promise a date, but I will say it is actively being worked on.

JessZahn,

Thank you for the update.  Please continue to push MS for this fix.  I invested a lot of $ and bought a dedicated Vista box for my HD setup (bought a dedicated MCE remote).  Now with this lack of functionality, I am at the verge of dumping MCE (even though I love it better than any other programs) because I lose over 50% of my ability to record shows.  So far, both BeyondTV and SageTV doesn't have this issue and I trial testing these other software.  I hate to spend another $80 when I bought the system just for Vista MCE.

Also to the group... has anyone tried this hack below?  Does it work?

http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/thread/201266.aspx

Thanks

 

I can vouch for the accident's hack working.  the one thing to make it work is to make sure that you name the channels the same as in the new listing you will be pulling.  you might hvae to do it in two places or twice in the same place to make sure the name stays.  the best way i found is when you go to add listings to channels you can select to rename the channel.  if you rename i there to the same name in the new listings and then assign it to the listing name it will stick.

another thing, my understanding is that the only way to get HD via VMC is through an ATSC card, and most of that is only going to come from OTA given cable cos encrypting channels/requiring a box.  VMC is built for HD, in my mind, and therefore it is counterintuitive to essentially ignore ATSC users because they are in the minority.  If you paid all this money for a system and still watching square, low-def TV you might want to re-think anyway.  Given the slowness of cable card and VMC playing nice, come 2009 in the US ATSC will still be the main means to get HD.

Just fix the d**n thing and move on, I fail to see how it is so hard for a company like MS to figure this out when there are many home-grown and/or commercial solutions that never had this problem in the first place.

jcr74:

Just fix the d**n thing and move on, I fail to see how it is so hard for a company like MS to figure this out when there are many home-grown and/or commercial solutions that never had this problem in the first place.

I agree - it totally defies logic. I can't even use VMC until this is fixed and certainly won't buy any extenders until it is working. I don't know how they even justify claiming they have "ATSC support" given these problems.

jcr74:

Just fix the d**n thing and move on, I fail to see how it is so hard for a company like MS to figure this out when there are many home-grown and/or commercial solutions that never had this problem in the first place.

 

My guess is that there's some stubborn tool at MSFT, and another equally stubborn tool at Tribune, who won't budge on some old contract they drafted before ATSC guides were on their radar.  Tribune probably wants more money for ATSC listings, and MSFT probably says, "Fine, we'll just wait until 2009 when ATSC is all there is, and you'll be forced to give us the listings anyways."

Like two schoolkids fighting over a ball on the playground.

And the customer gets it in the pooper.

Nope, not it. :-) Actually, the reasons are more technical having to do with our ATSC implementation than the business deal with TMS.

JessZahn:

Nope, not it. :-) Actually, the reasons are more technical having to do with our ATSC implementation than the business deal with TMS.

So you're working on it, huh?  Maybe that's actually good news.  Seems like we could expect a hotfix in the near future, then, and not have to wait until the next release.  (hint, hint...) 

I can guarantee you will not see this feature in a hotfix. The bar for getting anything out in an update out-of-cycle is extremely high - and it has to be an actual bug, not a feature that we need to improve.

JessZahn:

I can guarantee you will not see this feature in a hotfix. The bar for getting anything out in an update out-of-cycle is extremely high - and it has to be an actual bug, not a feature that we need to improve.

Sorry, but I fail to see how having no guide data or the wrong guide data for a channel is an "improvement" and not a critical bug??

and since it is 100% clear to everyone involved why this qualifies as "feature improvement" rather than a bug, that is a logical solution.

an example of a feature that needs to be improved is allowing two tuners to handle the overlap on back-to-back recordings.

a bug is when you can add sub-channel but cannot add the listings for that channel, when every other channel has listings.  but wait, they are not the real listings, just the translated NTSC listings, becuase getting ATSC listings is so hard, which is why all of the similar homegrown/commercial products out there have such a hard time getting them as well.  but wait...

better yet, a bug is when TRUSTEDINSTALLER suddenly overtakes all of your system resources in the middle of a recording, long after doing an automatic update, and renders the recording unwatchable or creates a situation where the signal that you had for 10 days apparently doesn't appear available anymore.

AND DO KNOW THIS BEFORE GOING LIVE AND DO NOTHING ABOUT IT!

JessZahn:

I can guarantee you will not see this feature in a hotfix. The bar for getting anything out in an update out-of-cycle is extremely high - and it has to be an actual bug, not a feature that we need to improve.

Okay, maybe the lack of ATSC subchannel guide data may not classify as a true "bug".  I'll buy that.  But the available workarounds we have which are a part of Media Center are still very buggy.

• When you "Add Listings" to an ATSC subchannel using a guide from a digital cable provider, the data gets wiped out when the guide updates.  This is a bug.
• If I remove, then re-add an ATSC subchannel to the guide, Media Center will sometimes duplicate this subchannel as a subchannel to my highest numbered ATSC channel.  This is a bug.
• If I rename a channel to something meaningful, it loses guide data.  This is a bug.
• When I say "Show No Listings for This Channel" on an ATSC subchannel, the channel continues to show guide data for the .1 subchannel.  This is a bug.

Most of these are longstanding and well-known bugs.  These are examples of broken features that we desperately need those hotfixes for.

Okay, I understand not in a hotfix, but perhaps a "feature pack", or some such thing then? I'd hate to wait for SP1 in the winter. Or, worse, for the next OS where it may or may not be considered a priority. That's way too long out, anyway. (I don't believe it could be the case, anyway, if it's being actively worked on.)

Well, you have to admit this is all rather ironically hysterically oddly funny, in both the hahaha and strange meanings of the word.  I mean in this world of HDCP DRM'ed encrypted nonsense microsoft tries to give us something good and useful and at least make all the FREE programming readily available to us in a genuinely user friendly and admirably honest way and then just happens to leave out the guide data for all the over the air HD which really was and is much of the point of the whole thing.

And then Microsoft in their infinite and ingraciatingly incalcuably earnest way gives us Jessica to be our heroine of the day, week, month and let's hope not year.

Well, I say god bless Jessica.  Go get'em woman!

You're sweet. :-) But Microsoft didn't tell me to do this; I just decided to. Most of the time it's pretty fun. It can be EXTREMELY frustrating when I can't solve problems, though. And freaky when I see my name on blogs or whatever.

Anyway, to the post a little before this one, yes. We shipped an experience that is incomplete. However, when we start looking at numbers of ATSC users, then the number of ATSC users who care about the subchannels, the market is tiny. I'm not saying it's unimportant, but you guys here are a little skewed, right - you're the enthusiasts, you probably watch and record TV more (did you know the vast majority of Media Center TV users still only have a single tuner? Wouldn't that drive you nuts?)

So, I stand by what I said before. We've got work to do in this area, and we do have plans to get it done. I can't share the timeframe or details, though.