Because it wasn't tested on existing installs.  In other words, it might work and it might not.  Personally, I installed on an a few month old Vista SP1 install and it was buggy.  Did a clean install and it worked better.

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Chris Lanier
The Green Button Forum Moderator

Chris - Moderator:

Because it wasn't tested on existing installs.  In other words, it might work and it might not.  Personally, I installed on an a few month old Vista SP1 install and it was buggy.  Did a clean install and it worked better.

Mine was a different experience. I installed it on a 3 week old installation and it was working flawlessly until the Guide download in late August broke it, like many others. Did a reformat and clean install and it has been more crash prone, but working, and I managed to fnally get QAM channels in the Guide.

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HP M9300T HTPC
Vista Home Premium 64-bit
Q9300 2.5ghz Quad-core 1333mhz FSB
4gb DDR2 PC2-6400 RAM
ViXS PureTV-U 48B0 Tuner Card
Hauppauge HVR-2250 Tuner Card
nVidia 8600GT w/512mb DDR3 VRAM
Linksys WT160 Wireless N Router
Linksys DMA2200 Extender

It sounds to me as if there are some noteworthy bugs regardless of whether or not recommended “TV Pack” install methods are observed. So the question is begging to be asked, when will we see the first updates / patch for the “TV Pack”? will such an update be made freely available to all or will it be released to OEMs only for integration into their OEM systems only?

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i7 920 | ASUS P6T Deluxe | Triple-Channle DDR3 3x1GB | MSI GTX260 | Seagate 750GB | OCZ 600W Stealth X | LG GGW-H20L| XBox 360 | XBox 360 HD DVD Drive | HDHomeRun | Hauppauge HD PVR | Vista Home Premium

Chris - Moderator:

Satch:

Pal, I'm with you 100% on this one.  I hate that crap too.  Self serving "I'm all too important" type BS.

The people who made those types of comments have gone very quiet.  Why?  This only helps to prove my statement above.

And Chris - why are you so defensive about all this?  It does not add up.

Personally, I think it is just those who didn't get a chance to beta test being childish.  The beta testers signed NDAs, and thus are not supposed to talk about anything related to the beta program or software until the NDA is up.  There is nothing wrong with them saying "Hey, I might have this software and there are some gotchas that mess stuff up.  I wish I could talk about it, but by me replying this way it is rather implied that something is going to break.  YMMY"

Now, the other side of this is people expecting Microsoft to compeltely open up because they purcahsed TGB.  The very first thing I said when the transition took place is that if people are expecting that they are going to be let down big time.  Microsoft owning TGB doesn't open up talk about unreleased products, just as you don't see talk from Microsoft reps about Xbox 720 on the xbox.com forums.

The reason they might not say anything about the DIRECTV tuner is most likely the same reason it didn't ship in the TV Pack.  Something isn't ready.  Could be Microsoft, could be DIRECTV (could be both, my personal bet).  The most you can hope for is that Microsoft will say they are still working on it.  Other than that, don't expect much.  I'm going to try to post about some of the issues, but I have NDAs other than a beta test NDA that go much deeper.

Not trying to be defensive, just repeating what I've said over the past few months.

1. I did not register to become a beta tester
2. I never expected Microsoft to communicate anything about their future plans

This thread (and in particular Mashman and my posts) are about all those who were under NDA saying that they'll have a lot more to say once the NDAs expired.  And for those who saw it fit to say things like "I wish you people would wait/you'll screw up your systems".  These people have gone SILENT.

Why would someone say these things but not back them up when they could, unless they were just trying to create their own importance?

What people would like to know is what happened during the beta testing, what was in initial betas but didn't make it to the final release, and what other communications were received from MS during the test period?

Mashman:

Satch:

Mashman:

How about someone explaining about  - when people started to get their hands on the TV Pack, and people started to install it, there were many "In the know" - but NDA'd people filling the threads with, statements like "install it at your own risk, but you'll mess up your machine -but I can't say why because I have a NDA".

I hate that type of $#!T.  So what grave danger is everyone who installed the TV Pack in?

Pal, I'm with you 100% on this one.  I hate that crap too.  Self serving "I'm all too important" type BS.

The people who made those types of comments have gone very quiet.  Why?  This only helps to prove my statement above.

And Chris - why are you so defensive about all this?  It does not add up.

 

So, I went back to find one of the particular posts I was talking about - http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/post/281578.aspx

So, what is the grave danger you wanted to warn us about, but couldn't because of the NDA you were contrained by?

Yeah, I commented on this post at the time, but our beloved Mod decided to delete my post.  My point is where is his comments now to back up that bold statement, now that the NDAs have been lifted?  Or was it simply yet another post to say "I know something that you don't..."

Who is really being the childish one here?

So, you don't think that the fact that the recording format changed, that plug-ins no longer work, that it is supposed to be installed via a clean SP1 install, etc, etc don't count as stuff that they couldn't talk about?

As I said, 99% of the stuff that couldn't be said by beta testers has been let out by those installing the leaked beta.  Other than that, there is nothing else that beta testers have information about.

If you or anyone else is going to keep attacking members about this you will be banned.  You can respect everyone or leave.  Simple as that.

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Chris Lanier
The Green Button Forum Moderator

Chris - Moderator:

So, you don't think that the fact that the recording format changed, that plug-ins no longer work, that it is supposed to be installed via a clean SP1 install, etc, etc don't count as stuff that they couldn't talk about?

As I said, 99% of the stuff that couldn't be said by beta testers has been let out by those installing the leaked beta.  Other than that, there is nothing else that beta testers have information about.

If you or anyone else is going to keep attacking members about this you will be banned.  You can respect everyone or leave.  Simple as that.

I'm sorry, but I am not attacking anyone here.  I'm just displaying my frustration at people who say they have things to say but can't, and when they can, they say nothing!

If these forums are not here to give help to people from others who have more knowledge, then my participation here is a waste of my time (not to mention other's time too).  If that is the case Chris, then by all means go ahead and ban me.

I am observing healthy discussion concerning a legitimate concern; What is the status of Vista Media Center post Windows Media Center TV Pack 2008?

Satch and numerous others have brought to bear various questions that I believe are highly relevant to TGB community.

I am NOT observing attacks on TGB community; pointed remarks have been directed at members who have been less than forthcoming with PROMISED information post CEDIA 2008.  To claim that everything we need to know was made available to us via Ben Reeds July announcement at minimum leaves me, for one, seriously questioning the Vista Media Center ecosystem and roadmap.

Again, why should I consider purchasing an OEM Vista Media Center (from HP, S1Digital, etc.) that ships with the WMCTP 2008?  What makes an OEM system, with WMCTP 2008, superior to a Windows Vista Premium/Ultimate SP1 install? Am I to understand, based on Ben Reeds July announcement that aside from OEM bells and whistles, the only added value of WMCTP 2008 (for the US market) is ClearQAM (Unencrypted Digital Cable)?

I simply desire an understanding of the future of VMC post WMCTP 2008.  What do we takeaway from all the discussions of the last few months?

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PM me with your ASUS Striker Extreme Horror Story..

Like Chris said, almost everything got out after the leak and the announcement by MS.
There are other things like plugins not installing, missing surround sound etc which have become apparent to most users of the pack but the fixes are trivial for the most part. Other things which no longer function with TV pack will require rewrites using an updated API.
If you have any specific questions of comments I'm sure everyone would be willing to answer them as best as they can (with the usual caveats of course).

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http://www.spore.com/view/profile/Vengence_IRL

Vengence_Irl:

Like Chris said, almost everything got out after the leak and the announcement by MS.
There are other things like plugins not installing, missing surround sound etc which have become apparent to most users of the pack but the fixes are trivial for the most part. Other things which no longer function with TV pack will require rewrites using an updated API.
If you have any specific questions of comments I'm sure everyone would be willing to answer them as best as they can (with the usual caveats of course).

I completely agree with Mashman, Satch and others.  Microsoft along with beta testers repeated stated NOT to listen to rumors or leaked information, that at CEDIA more information would be provided.  Where is that information?

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.:: Vista Ultimate x64 :: Antec Fusion :: Corsair HX520w :: ASUS P5E-VM :: Core2 Duo E8400 3.0Ghz :: 4GB RAM :: 128GB SSD System\Apps :: 1TB\5TB Data :: LG GGC-H20L BD/HD DVD :: HDHomeRun x2 ::.

99.99% of that was before Ben posted the annoucement on TGB.  After that, I know I said don't expect anything else and specifically noted that DIRECTV was not going to be annouced at CEDIA or anything else not in Ben's post.

We are not going to keep going back and fouth on this.  Some beta testers respected their NDAs and didn't say anything but warned people of the possible adverse affects of installing the TV Pack.  These affects started coming out as people installed the leaked beta and thus the beta testers have nothing left to tell.  Don't like that they tried to warn you on the possiblity of the TV Pack breaking your machine?  Get over it.  Really, want else are you looking for.  They tried to be nice and warn of a poor experience that could happen.

I've yet to really find someone asking about specific information related to the TV Pack that they want beta users to answer.  The only thin I have seen is questions about what isn't in the TV Pack.  Beta testers don't have any information on that.

So, I'll ask again, now that the NDA can be considered up, what information about the TV Pack are people looking for?

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Chris Lanier
The Green Button Forum Moderator

Chris - Moderator:

99.99% of that was before Ben posted the annoucement on TGB.  After that, I know I said don't expect anything else and specifically noted that DIRECTV was not going to be annouced at CEDIA or anything else not in Ben's post.

We are not going to keep going back and fouth on this.  Some beta testers respected their NDAs and didn't say anything but warned people of the possible adverse affects of installing the TV Pack.  These affects started coming out as people installed the leaked beta and thus the beta testers have nothing left to tell.  Don't like that they tried to warn you on the possiblity of the TV Pack breaking your machine?  Get over it.  Really, want else are you looking for.  They tried to be nice and warn of a poor experience that could happen.

I've yet to really find someone asking about specific information related to the TV Pack that they want beta users to answer.  The only thin I have seen is questions about what isn't in the TV Pack.  Beta testers don't have any information on that.

So, I'll ask again, now that the NDA can be considered up, what information about the TV Pack are people looking for?

Why are you getting defensive and irritated?  Members are respectively asking for additional information that Microsoft stated would be provided.  What is wrong with that?  If you feel the information has already been provided by Microsoft (not leaked information) then let THEM state that all the information has already been provided.

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.:: Vista Ultimate x64 :: Antec Fusion :: Corsair HX520w :: ASUS P5E-VM :: Core2 Duo E8400 3.0Ghz :: 4GB RAM :: 128GB SSD System\Apps :: 1TB\5TB Data :: LG GGC-H20L BD/HD DVD :: HDHomeRun x2 ::.

I'm not trying to be defensive, but I would like if someone could tell me things they are interested in knowing.  All I keep hearing is "We want to hear about the TV Pack."  What are people interested to know??  Without knowing that, I'm a bit unsure of what people are hoping to get! 

What information do you want provided by Microsoft.  I'll try and help it get out, but without knowing what people are interested in knowing there is no way to get whatever it is you guys are looking for.

I'm trying to help y'all out, but no one is giving me any information to do that.

Questions is what I need.

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Chris Lanier
The Green Button Forum Moderator

Chris - Moderator:

I'm not trying to be defensive, but I would like if someone could tell me things they are interested in knowing.  All I keep hearing is "We want to hear about the TV Pack."  What are people interested to know??  Without knowing that, I'm a bit unsure of what people are hoping to get! 

What information do you want provided by Microsoft.  I'll try and help it get out, but without knowing what people are interested in knowing there is no way to get whatever it is you guys are looking for.

I'm trying to help y'all out, but no one is giving me any information to do that.

Questions is what I need.

- TV Pack included fixes to bugs.  Will those fixes be available as updates to non-OEM users?

- TV Pack changed various APIs.  When will an updated SDK be made available?  How will developers support TV Pack systems if they do not have an OEM system.  Will it become available via MSDN Subscriptions?

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.:: Vista Ultimate x64 :: Antec Fusion :: Corsair HX520w :: ASUS P5E-VM :: Core2 Duo E8400 3.0Ghz :: 4GB RAM :: 128GB SSD System\Apps :: 1TB\5TB Data :: LG GGC-H20L BD/HD DVD :: HDHomeRun x2 ::.

-If the playback architecture was changed is MS going to provide any information to assist plug-in developers to account for this change. As babgvant stated already, changing private or undocumented API is one thing, change a public API so that it breaks is another matter.