It would help if MS would just say that SDV or Tru2way is under development or whatever. ATI doesn't want to talk about updates and DRM issues, Cable Labs only issues the technical specifications and licenses so no luck there either.

The OEM builders are completely in the dark (Dell for one doesn't even know if their current machines will work with TV Pack 2008--at least not publicly).

Now SDV is only in a few markets and at least some of those are test markets since it requires new equipment for the cable company both internal, pole switches (fiber to coax) and in many cases STB which will probably have to have cablecards under the new rulings.

So the Tuning Adapter is going to be a band-aid and the next tuner BOCR should support Tru2way and if properly built be able to tune up to four channels and work with a single M-Card.

What we don't know is the time line for any of this and perhaps no one does since so many partners are involved. The roll out may take place over a couple of years.

But my main concern is that MS eHome needs to take the Home Theatre Professional into the fold. Make them part of the inside team and keep them posted. These guys install, program and in short make things work and MS eHome should respect what they can do to promote MC and Extenders as a solution.

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XPS420: Quad, 4 Gig, 650/1T internal, 3 eSata
Dual ATI Cable Cards (SA-800 M)
T-W W Valley (LA)
ATI Radeon HD3870 (DVI/HDMI)
3 Maxtor NAS (320/500/1T)
2 XP, 1 Macintosh X (10.4.11), HP 280N extender, Linksys DMA2100, DMA2200
Promise Ns4300 Raid 5

Can someone from the eHome team chime in here and give us something ? Please ?

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-Dave

MCP, MCSA, MCSE 2003
Windows Vista Connected Exp:Home Theater for Technologists
Windows Vista Connected Exp:Home Theater for Sales professionals

Home theater specialist (10+ years)

I wouldn't hold my breath for a meaningful/informative response since it would probably fall into the realm of 'future plans', 'release scheduled', [insert cantSpeak™ here] :-/

DavidinCT:

Can someone from the eHome team chime in here and give us something ? Please ?

If you want us to confirm features and release schedule... Jack is right that we can't comment.  Though, I probably would have stated it differently than he did.  The problem is that even if we confirm what we are working on, something could get cut at the last minute for any number of reasons (technical, political, external dependencies, etc.).  Then we would take the fall out for misleading people.  So it has become policy not to discuss details until the releases are set.

If you have questions other than confirming features in a release or the release schedule... let me have them.  I'll see if I can get answers.

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Jeff Tucker
Microsoft | eHome
------------------------------------------------
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

I Guess the biggest piece of this whole question is two part.... first..... Will those of us with Digital Cable Card Tuners have to purchase a whole new PC to get BOCUR or Tru2Way compatible tuners, or would or existing boxes allow for an upgrade (the whole, special bios, special Vista Cable Card Version)....  and secondly.... if the answer is no.... will the Tuning Adapters solve this issue with our existing OCUR tuners in Vista Media Center?

I'd hate to think my recent investment of $2000 for the sole purpose of Cable Card Tuning in Vista Media Center will go to waste in less than 12 months.....

Any information you can give us all on this I'm sure would be appreciated by all.

 

-Rob

JeffTucker – MSFT:

DavidinCT:

Can someone from the eHome team chime in here and give us something ? Please ?

If you want us to confirm features and release schedule... Jack is right that we can't comment.  Though, I probably would have stated it differently than he did.  The problem is that even if we confirm what we are working on, something could get cut at the last minute for any number of reasons (technical, political, external dependencies, etc.).  Then we would take the fall out for misleading people.  So it has become policy not to discuss details until the releases are set.

If you have questions other than confirming features in a release or the release schedule... let me have them.  I'll see if I can get answers.

I dont think anyone is asking for a commitment, a release schedule or even that something is being worked on.  Most people just want to know that MS is aware of the issue and is looking at alternative solutions and in discussion with hardware vendors as to possible solutions.  That at least would leave us believing we are not going to be abandoned. 

I feel your pain however, having made the announcement that TV PAck is only available to people who buy new machines, to have to come tell us that to get  around the SDV issue we will have to buy new machines would of course send the world into apopoleptic shock.  On the other hand just imagine the poor folks who went out and bought a new machine to get the TV pack only to find out a few months later they have to buy another one to get around SDV and then another when Vista 7 comes out cos the MC component is only available via an RTM machine. (Oops)

I guess in short an answer to the above on whether, recognising that you are not commiting to work on a solution, are not telling us a solution is in the works, but that hypothetically, if a solution was being worked on, that that hypothetical solution in an ideal world would if rolled out to existing Cable CArd owners, either work with existing cable card tunres, only work with new tuners but with existing machines, only work with new machines, would go along way to at least letting us know that MS is aware that the existing cable card solution is disintegrating as Cable companies move to SDV.

In some ways it is disappointing to know that MS has not already got to the point where a solution to this has been identified and set so to speak.

 

Again, I have to ask, how is Cable Providers moving to a different head-end delivery system Microsoft's problem, when it's not a software issue?  Microsoft doesn't make the tuner, so they wouldn't be able to offer a solution to a partner hardware manufacturer in any event.  This would be ATI's problem to fix, and they don't appear to be in any hurry, even if Microsoft was pressing them.  Abandonment would come from ATI.

1. AMD is sorry that they bought ATI.  It has not worked out the way they wanted.

2. As far as I can tell, ATI is an orphan at AMD, even more than that VMC is at Microsoft.

3. These issues are not priority for either company since they effect such a small number of users.

I wish it were otherwise and I do agree that only pressure from Microsoft to AMD can move the ball forward.  I don't expect that anyone in the non-graphics card part of ATI has any leverage at AMD at this point.

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dnr
edelan

JeffTucker – MSFT:

DavidinCT:

Can someone from the eHome team chime in here and give us something ? Please ?

If you want us to confirm features and release schedule... Jack is right that we can't comment.  Though, I probably would have stated it differently than he did.  The problem is that even if we confirm what we are working on, something could get cut at the last minute for any number of reasons (technical, political, external dependencies, etc.).  Then we would take the fall out for misleading people.  So it has become policy not to discuss details until the releases are set.

If you have questions other than confirming features in a release or the release schedule... let me have them.  I'll see if I can get answers.

I guess this means you are working on the issue....I guess the main questions I have here are...

1. If this is being worked on, is this something we should see in a reasonable time frame (I understand the process but, something saying in the next few months possably or 3 years would be nice), or is this going to be held out for Windows 7 ?

2. In what your working on, will it need new tuners or is it possable to upgrade the firmware on current tuners from what you have seen?

This is kind of inportant, why should I spend $600-800 on tuners(3 of them), when they will be outdated by X time ? I really don't like to dump money into something that will be worthless in 6 months. This is an investment in a Media Center system I want to do once every few years, and dumping like this is not something I want to do and I am sure a lot of other people here feel the same...

Are you going offer a free upgrade if I buy them now ? I don't see that happening...

 

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-Dave

MCP, MCSA, MCSE 2003
Windows Vista Connected Exp:Home Theater for Technologists
Windows Vista Connected Exp:Home Theater for Sales professionals

Home theater specialist (10+ years)

How is it not a software problem?  Tuner firmware doesn't fix much.  Media Center still has to tell the tuner what to tune.

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Chris Lanier
The Green Button Forum Moderator

Chris - Moderator:

How is it not a software problem?  Tuner firmware doesn't fix much.  Media Center still has to tell the tuner what to tune.

Granted.  But the tuning of SDV is based on hardware, is it not?  Otherwise, a firmware fix would work.

It is hardware, software, and firmware.  Everything needs changes.

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Chris Lanier
The Green Button Forum Moderator

dnr:

1. AMD is sorry that they bought ATI.  It has not worked out the way they wanted.

2. As far as I can tell, ATI is an orphan at AMD, even more than that VMC is at Microsoft.

3. These issues are not priority for either company since they effect such a small number of users.

I wish it were otherwise and I do agree that only pressure from Microsoft to AMD can move the ball forward.  I don't expect that anyone in the non-graphics card part of ATI has any leverage at AMD at this point.

I think you will find AMD/ATI is still focused on CableCARD. AMD however is hardly the company that is making this stuff go slow.  CableLabs has not finished the BOCR specs AFAIK, thus AMD can't produce a 100% working two-way tuner.  If AMD can't finish the tuner, Microsoft can't finish the software aspect.

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Chris Lanier
The Green Button Forum Moderator

Chris - Moderator:

It is hardware, software, and firmware.  Everything needs changes.

Ok, then I missed the target by a mile.  Not an uncommon occurrence for me these days.

Chris - Moderator:

dnr:

1. AMD is sorry that they bought ATI.  It has not worked out the way they wanted.

2. As far as I can tell, ATI is an orphan at AMD, even more than that VMC is at Microsoft.

3. These issues are not priority for either company since they effect such a small number of users.

I wish it were otherwise and I do agree that only pressure from Microsoft to AMD can move the ball forward.  I don't expect that anyone in the non-graphics card part of ATI has any leverage at AMD at this point.

I think you will find AMD/ATI is still focused on CableCARD. AMD however is hardly the company that is making this stuff go slow.  CableLabs has not finished the BOCR specs AFAIK, thus AMD can't produce a 100% working two-way tuner.  If AMD can't finish the tuner, Microsoft can't finish the software aspect.

So its all CableLab's and the cable industry dragging their heels?  Why am I not shocked?