How are you supposed to perform a fresh install of MCE2005 and get everything, including Media Center, Media Player 11, and Internet Explorer 7 all installed properly?

From what I can tell, Microsoft turned a blind eye to ensuring SP3 didn't totally mess up fresh installs of MCE2005.  The argument that SP3 provides a simple way to completely install all Windows Update patches in one step is completely incorrect when it comes to MCE2005, and possibly even XP.

What is the correct procedure to install and update MCE2005?  Do I need to manually stop SP3 from autoinstalling, and then, using custom settings for Windows Update, install all 100+ patches, including WMP11, IE7, MCE RU2 and after that, allow SP3 to automatically install?

 

 

Read on if you want to see what might be install for you if you decide to fresh install MCE2005:

A couple of days ago my daughter's MCE2005 PC's operating system got totally screwed up when I tried to uninstall some mp3 player conversion software, Quicktime software, and Windows Live Photo Editor.  While it already wasn't working quite right and I was stumped, I decided to let Windows Update autoinstall SP3, hoping it might fix things up.  It didn't; and Media Center no longer could play any video.....

So, I figured it was time to back what I could up and reinstall MCE2005:

1. I formatted, installed MCE2005 and rebooted (~2 hours).
2. Let Windows Update perform its recommended and automatic update.  WU went ahead and installed SP3 right away automatically (1+ hour).
3. Installed the latest chipset inf, video driver and audio driver.
4. Installed all of her software, typing tutors, math tutors, reading tutors, and some video games (2.5 hours).  During this time Windows Update automatically installed a number of additional updates that required SP3 prior to installation.
5. Installed DVRMStoolbox, My Movies, mceWeather, etc. (1 hour).
6. Installed the video conversion software for her mp3 player (major pain with codecs - 2 hours).
7. Noticed that Internet Explorer 7 had not been automatically updated (but did previously when SP2 was installed; why not with SP3??).  Manually installed IE7 through WU (25 minutes).
8. Installed the PVR-USB and driver and configured Media Center and noticed that Media Center didn't quite look right.
9. Let my daughter use it for a while and she noticed that Windows Media Player 10 was installed and not 11.  Again, why didn't WU offer this like it did when SP2 was installed?
10. I downloaded WMP11 only to find out that it cannot be installed on MCE2005 once SP3 has been installed.  Spent an hour searching web for how to install WMP11 on MCE2005 now that SP3 automatically installs itself by default.
11. Sent an e-mail to Microsoft support asking for instructions to install WMP11.
12. Then my daughter starts up Media Center only to find it has a bunch of old bugs, has slightly different UI and has no zoom control while watching Recorded TV.  I then realized that Media Center had not been updated by Windows Update at all and the very original, unpatched MCE2005 was running; none of the various Media Center updates, nor Roll Up 2 was installed.
13. I then try to update Media Center, with RU2, only to find out that it can only be installed when XP SP2 is installed and not once SP3 has been installed.

So at this point I've spent most of the weekend on her PC, only to be stuck with missing MANY critical updates for Media Player and Media Center and none of them will install..

On top of that, there are now tons of pieces of software, including several automatic updates that have been installed after SP3 so I very much doubt it will uninstall cleanly.

There is no reliable method I can see to update Media Center and Media Player at this point.

What on earth was Microsoft thinking????  Why wouldn't Windows Update automatically bring the system ultimately to the same state that it would have had the machine been built prior to SP3 being released?

Is SP3 and automatic updates intended to make it impossible to actually update MCE2005 properly?

So now, after wasting my weekend, it looks like I'm going to need to start all over again.

I am not impressed.

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STB w/R5000HD USB I/O, Gigabyte GA-P35-DS4, Quad Q6600, 4.0 GB RAM, ATI HD 3870 512MB, Ultra XVS 600W PSU, 3x SATA 500GB, 2x SATA 300GB, LG GGC-H20L, PVR-250, Toshiba 51H83 (51" HDTV), Yamaha RX-V2400 Amp, 5x Energy Speakers, SVS Sub, Harmony 880 Remote

Has no-one besides me been through this yet?

I've been reasearching this all over the internet and there seems to be a few different thoughts on this:

1.  Fresh MCE2005 install, right away hide the SP3 update permanently, run Windows Update to install everything, including IE7, WMP11, MCE RU2, other MCE updates.

2.  Perform the above and then install SP3.

3.  Fresh MCE2005 install, right away hide the SP3 update, install just WMP11, MCE RU2, install other MCE updates, and then install SP3 followed by IE7 as a final step.

The problem with #3 is all of the posts I've found talk about doing this "in theory" as opposed to listing exactly which patches need to be installed prior to SP3 in order to bring MCE2005 to a fully updated status.

Also, as far as why MCE2005 has been so overlooked by SP3, Microsoft's argument is they consider MCE2005 to be an out of band release.  SP3 specifically targets the release of XP along with MCE2004 and it doesn't know how to deal with MCE2005 at all.  The same argument apparently applies to WMP11 since it didn't arrive with the OS (SP3 breaks the ability to ever install WMP11 on regular XP as well).

What bugs me about this is the fact that Windows Update should be smart enough to realize a fresh install is being updated and for it to perform whatever is necessary prior to SP3 to bring everything up to date.  Unfortunately it isn't and it installs SP3 right away and leaves your system in an incomplete update state.

For now I think I'm going to go with #1, especially since the corruption of her system I saw in the very beginning aligned perfectly with what many other MCE2005 owners discovered after installing SP3.  Essentially SP3 doesn't seem to be very MCE2005 with RU2 compatible.

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STB w/R5000HD USB I/O, Gigabyte GA-P35-DS4, Quad Q6600, 4.0 GB RAM, ATI HD 3870 512MB, Ultra XVS 600W PSU, 3x SATA 500GB, 2x SATA 300GB, LG GGC-H20L, PVR-250, Toshiba 51H83 (51" HDTV), Yamaha RX-V2400 Amp, 5x Energy Speakers, SVS Sub, Harmony 880 Remote

I'm not looking forward to having to do this :( but I'd do 1 then ghost/backup/image... then try SP3

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http://www.spore.com/view/profile/Vengence_IRL

Vengence_Irl:

I'm not looking forward to having to do this :( but I'd do 1 then ghost/backup/image... then try SP3

Without hearing anything official from Microsoft on this, I think you are correct as to the safest approach.

Right now I'm severely pissed off that I wasted my weekend, only to need to do everything over again.

I can't get it out of my head how rediculous it is that Windows Update will automatically totally screw up a fresh MCE2005 installation.  This is so far from reasonable I am in awe.

What is just as surprizing is the posts on the Microsoft Technet forums from Microsoft employees involved with SP3 deployment.  The justification for why SP3 doesn't support MCE2005 is MCE2005 is an "out of band" release, so SP3 doesn't know anything about the version of Media Center included with MCE2005 and can't update it.  Edit:  Note that I can't seem to find the quote by a MS employee, so it may be second hand news and not directly from an MS employee.

Crazy as it sounds, SP3 does apparently include updates for MCE2004, but doesn't do anything other than break future updates for MCE2005.  MCE2004 was apparently an "in band" release so it is apparently supported by SP3.

Even if we are to simply accept that Media Center itself from MCE2005 isn't supported by SP3, I would expect that Windows Update would be smart enough to work around this issue and first install all required updates prior to installing SP3 automatically.  Alternatively, Windows Update could simply not install SP3 on MCE2005 systems.

I have a couple of support calls into Microsoft and I'll post their recommended MCE2005 installation procedure here for anyone else going down this path.  Hopefully they will eventually make changes to Windows Update so it will automatically update a fresh MCE2005 installation.

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STB w/R5000HD USB I/O, Gigabyte GA-P35-DS4, Quad Q6600, 4.0 GB RAM, ATI HD 3870 512MB, Ultra XVS 600W PSU, 3x SATA 500GB, 2x SATA 300GB, LG GGC-H20L, PVR-250, Toshiba 51H83 (51" HDTV), Yamaha RX-V2400 Amp, 5x Energy Speakers, SVS Sub, Harmony 880 Remote

OK, here's the "official word" from Microsoft on how to install and update MCE2005:

The issue:

• SP3 does not include any updates for the Media Center component of MCE2005. SP3 does support MCE2005 in that it does upgrade the core XP operating system, but once it is installed, the Media Center component of MCE2005 cannot be updated. There is no way to update Media Center at this point if it wasn't done prior to SP3.
• SP3 also does not include Media Player 11 nor any updates for it. Similarly, once SP3 is installed, if Media Player 10 was installed during the update, Media Player 11 cannot be installed afterwards.
• The biggest issue is Windows Update is not aware of this. Windows Update will automatically install SP3 as the very first update to a fresh MCE2005 install, rendering the system in a messed up, non-updateable state.

I wrote up a how to install MCE2005 based on Microsoft's advice complete with web links, but for some reason whenever I click "Post" here at thegreenbutton.com I get an "AJAX error".  I copied and pasted it into a wordpad document and have attached it here (hopefully this works...).

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STB w/R5000HD USB I/O, Gigabyte GA-P35-DS4, Quad Q6600, 4.0 GB RAM, ATI HD 3870 512MB, Ultra XVS 600W PSU, 3x SATA 500GB, 2x SATA 300GB, LG GGC-H20L, PVR-250, Toshiba 51H83 (51" HDTV), Yamaha RX-V2400 Amp, 5x Energy Speakers, SVS Sub, Harmony 880 Remote

I don't get it.  Every time I try to submit my "How to" information, I get the following error from thegreenbutton.com:

"The following error occured while processing an AJAX request: Syntax error

Would you like to see the response?"

When I hit "OK", it pops up with:

"An AJAX error occured.  The response is invalid."

This is totally bizarre.

Essentially, there is a whole sequence of things you need to install, one after the other, to get MCE2005 fully updated properly...

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STB w/R5000HD USB I/O, Gigabyte GA-P35-DS4, Quad Q6600, 4.0 GB RAM, ATI HD 3870 512MB, Ultra XVS 600W PSU, 3x SATA 500GB, 2x SATA 300GB, LG GGC-H20L, PVR-250, Toshiba 51H83 (51" HDTV), Yamaha RX-V2400 Amp, 5x Energy Speakers, SVS Sub, Harmony 880 Remote

HT Sliders How-to below...

How to install MCE2005, performing a fresh install, complete with SP3

At some point, Microsoft will patch Windows Update so it is aware of these issues and it will perform an appropriate update path for MCE2005. Unfortunately for the time being the work around is as follows:

1.    Perform a fresh install of MCE2005, but during the installation turn off automatic updates (otherwise SP3 will try to install automatically). This 3 step, 2 CD install will install XP, the MCE2005 Media Center component and patch the OS to SP2.

2.    Install sonic encoders from the 3rd MCE2005 CD (if you have the full package and want native DVD burning from within Media Center).

3.    Manually download and install .NET 1.1 from http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=262D25E3-F589-4842-8157-034D1E7CF3A3&displaylang=en Note you need to ignore the .NET 1.1 "REQUIREMENT" to have the latest service pack and all Windows Update patches installed prior to installing .NET 1.1.

4.    Manually download and install .NET 1.1 SP1 from http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=a8f5654f-088e-40b2-bbdb-a83353618b38&displaylang=en

5.    Manually download and install Media Center Rollup 2 from http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=e5daf37e-e243-4410-bc51-81cf2b56fe6e&DisplayLang=en

6.    Manually install the October 2006 Update Rollup for XP Media Center 2005 from http://support.microsoft.com/kb/925766

7.    If you want Media Player 11, install it manually from http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=1d224714-e238-4e45-8668-5166114010ca&displaylang=en

8.    Turn back on Automatic Updates and let SP3 install. 

9.    After a reboot, let Windows Update install the remaining patches and updates, including Internet Explorer 7.

I gathered the specific pre-requisites from reading through the various patch knowledge base articles.  Hopefully I got them all.

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Chris Lanier
The Green Button Forum Moderator

Methinks that some formatting or another in your writeup is confudding the board s/w.
Maybe try putting the writeup in quote blocks?

FWIW, from what I've read on the internets (and, notably, over at the TechNet forums), the ItWorksForMe(tm) method seems to be:
Install (in order):
MCE2k5; .NET Framework 1.1; SP1 for .NET Framework 1.1; Update Rollup 2; October 2006 Cumulative Rollup; IE7; WMP11; SP3. 
Install drivers.  Finish MS Updates.  Install tuners.
(please make corrections as necessary.)

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~Chris
'nearly every day of my life is some kind of computer hell'

Desktop: Shuttle SN41 (AthlonXP 2700+), AIW, T550, PVR-USB2, HDHR; server: Intel E6400 on I965P mobo, 2GB RAM, 2x 500GB WD, PVR500, NV DualTV, Saber2020, 2xHDHR; Xbox MCX, Xbox360

I too have opted to stay with XP MCE 2005.  I built my HTPC in Dec 2006.  I picked this date since it would allow me a free upgrade to Vista since it was so close to the Vista release.  Once I got my system configured in XP MCE I decided that I didn't want to go through the config hassles again, especially around video drivers and sound drivers (I was using component output which seems to make things even more finicky).  I also didn't want to piss off the wife by installing a new version of MC with a new UI, even if it is marginally better.

But one further question - even though my XP MCE machine is not a fresh install, is there any point in installing SP3?  Should I disable it permanently?

Nope - really no point in installing it.  SP3 for XP is, basically, a rollup of all of the updates released since SP2 shipped (plus a couple of very minor, usually-don't-matter-for-us functionality changes.)
Honestly, I have absolutely no plans to install it on either of my MCE2k5 machines.  If, in the future, a reinstall on one or the other is necessary, then I'll likely do it.  Otherwise, not gonna happen here.

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~Chris
'nearly every day of my life is some kind of computer hell'

Desktop: Shuttle SN41 (AthlonXP 2700+), AIW, T550, PVR-USB2, HDHR; server: Intel E6400 on I965P mobo, 2GB RAM, 2x 500GB WD, PVR500, NV DualTV, Saber2020, 2xHDHR; Xbox MCX, Xbox360

HT Slider:

What is just as surprizing is the posts on the Microsoft Technet forums from Microsoft employees involved with SP3 deployment.  The justification for why SP3 doesn't support MCE2005 is MCE2005 is an "out of band" release, so SP3 doesn't know anything about the version of Media Center included with MCE2005 and can't update it.  Edit:  Note that I can't seem to find the quote by a MS employee, so it may be second hand news and not directly from an MS employee.

Crazy as it sounds, SP3 does apparently include updates for MCE2004, but doesn't do anything other than break future updates for MCE2005.  MCE2004 was apparently an "in band" release so it is apparently supported by SP3.

sjulty:

 

And BTW, hearing that Microsoft considers MCE2005 "out of band" is one of the most

ridiculous things I have ever heard. After all, who wrote the code for it, the man on the moon?

 

-Steve

I'll admit that I have let MCE 2005 (and XP) behind, but just to be clear an "Out of Band" (OOB) release just means that the update for application x was released outside of Service Pack/Major OS update/etc.  Basically, since MCE 2005 was released as XP SP2+ a second CD it is considered an OOB release.

"Out of Band" does not mean "unsupported and forgetten" as I think sjulty might think.  That said, I have no idea SP3 is supposed to work, I'll try and e-mail and get something.

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Chris Lanier
The Green Button Forum Moderator

wayner9:

I too have opted to stay with XP MCE 2005.  I built my HTPC in Dec 2006.  I picked this date since it would allow me a free upgrade to Vista since it was so close to the Vista release.  Once I got my system configured in XP MCE I decided that I didn't want to go through the config hassles again, especially around video drivers and sound drivers (I was using component output which seems to make things even more finicky).  I also didn't want to piss off the wife by installing a new version of MC with a new UI, even if it is marginally better.

I actually did the same thing with my main HTPC (although I also transferred the original MCE2005 to one of my daughters PC's to replace the basic XP).  After running a dual boot for Vista and MCE2005 for a while on the main HTPC, I opted to upgrade to Vista permanently.  I have since deleted MCE2005 from it entirely and have an auxiliary boot into Vista for "experiments".  I really don't see any downside to Vista, other than I'd have to pay to upgrade the 4 remaining MCE2005 systems we have (2 have now been upgraded to Vista).

Overall, Vista provides a slicker interface, slightly better performance (if you have lots of RAM), and of course it is supported with updates and future enhancements.

wayner9:

But one further question - even though my XP MCE machine is not a fresh install, is there any point in installing SP3?  Should I disable it permanently?

I'm not sure.  SP3 automatically installed on one of my 4 MCE2005 systems and it has been working flawlessly since.  Of course the system I'm rebuilding now wasn't able to watch TV after SP3, but it did have some codec issues previously (due to trying to get my daughters Sansa e260 Portable Media Player hooked up for transferring Recorded TV).

I still have automatic updates enabled on the other 2 MCE2005 systems and they haven't been "autoupdated" yet.  I plan to let them update, but won't force SP3 to install at all.

For a fresh install I think there is a benefit to installing per the path above since the core OS gets a clean, single update, instead of patch, after patch, after patch.  Hopefully a fresh install, complete with all of the updates using SP3 (without any other patches) should provide a rock solid stable platform.

The install is underway right now...

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STB w/R5000HD USB I/O, Gigabyte GA-P35-DS4, Quad Q6600, 4.0 GB RAM, ATI HD 3870 512MB, Ultra XVS 600W PSU, 3x SATA 500GB, 2x SATA 300GB, LG GGC-H20L, PVR-250, Toshiba 51H83 (51" HDTV), Yamaha RX-V2400 Amp, 5x Energy Speakers, SVS Sub, Harmony 880 Remote

Cup:

Methinks that some formatting or another in your writeup is confudding the board s/w.
Maybe try putting the writeup in quote blocks?

FWIW, from what I've read on the internets (and, notably, over at the TechNet forums), the ItWorksForMe(tm) method seems to be:
Install (in order):
MCE2k5; .NET Framework 1.1; SP1 for .NET Framework 1.1; Update Rollup 2; October 2006 Cumulative Rollup; IE7; WMP11; SP3. 
Install drivers.  Finish MS Updates.  Install tuners.
(please make corrections as necessary.)

You have almost the same procedure that I posted above, although Microsoft recommends installing IE7 after SP3 in the SP3 deployment guide since it allows greater flexibility (can be uninstalled if desired).

The procedure I posted above was sent to me from Tim Schreck via Ian Kennedy both of the ehome team so it should be a reliable way to rebuild an MCE2005 system.

I added download location details and researched and posted the prerequisite links that they mentioned.

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STB w/R5000HD USB I/O, Gigabyte GA-P35-DS4, Quad Q6600, 4.0 GB RAM, ATI HD 3870 512MB, Ultra XVS 600W PSU, 3x SATA 500GB, 2x SATA 300GB, LG GGC-H20L, PVR-250, Toshiba 51H83 (51" HDTV), Yamaha RX-V2400 Amp, 5x Energy Speakers, SVS Sub, Harmony 880 Remote

There is one additional Media Center update that doesn't seem to get installed using the method I posted.  This is the "Rollup 2 for eHome Infrared Receiver for Windows XP Media Center", found at http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=B39D53F1-0AC9-433B-B488-4CAB82F31DC8&displaylang=en.

I would guess that it is somehow included in the other rollup, or possibly Windows Update will install it afterwards.

Just to be sure, I have added this update between "Media Center Rollup 2" and the "October 2006 Update Rollup for XP Media Center 2005", while reinstalling MCE on this particular system.

Does anyone know if "Rollup 2 for eHome Infrared Receiver for Windows XP Media Center" is actually included in the October 2006 Rollup?  The knowledge base article for the Oct 2006 Rollup doesn't seem to include it anywhere, nor do any of the updates that are superceded include the IR update.  It "seems" to need to be installed separately (if you want it).

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STB w/R5000HD USB I/O, Gigabyte GA-P35-DS4, Quad Q6600, 4.0 GB RAM, ATI HD 3870 512MB, Ultra XVS 600W PSU, 3x SATA 500GB, 2x SATA 300GB, LG GGC-H20L, PVR-250, Toshiba 51H83 (51" HDTV), Yamaha RX-V2400 Amp, 5x Energy Speakers, SVS Sub, Harmony 880 Remote