must be closing in on the 2 year anniversary of this problem now

wonder how long MS will continue to ignore this issue?

Until they no longer support XP.  They're not going to provide any real support on this issue for a product we purchased.  This is why my new HP laptop was returned.  I am placing an order for a Macbook pro either this week or next.  I'm doubting I'll replace the MC desktop when it goes.  The next step of my conversion away from MS is selling my 360 to get a PS3.  I know I'll be missing out on the mc functions altogether, but with a separate dvd-r and cable box I can get the tv functionality that mc was supposed to provide plus actually get support to make it work like advertised, not overpromising and underdelivering.

RandyG in March of 2007 said:

There are a few other discussions about CGMS-A here as well.

I am on Shaw in Canada, and they are putting "Copy Never"' on a TON of shows, all the movies, even lots of kid's shows my three year old likes to watch.  Even reruns of Reba that my wife likes.

This is not PPV, or VOD.

I know it's CGMS-A "copy never" because I am an electronics junkie, and a professional programmer.  I trapped the signal on line-21 on my oscilloscope.   Then I made a circuit that blanked it out.   And that fixed it, period, no more guessing.  It's not noise.


Further,
There ** ARE ** laws, in the USA, for CGMS
The MOST prohibitive copy protection (that can be applied by the cable company) is:
OTA broadcast - Copy Freely (EMI=00)
PPV / VOD - Copy Never (EMI=11)
Anything Else - Copy Once (EMI=10)

http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/09nov20051500/edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2005/octqtr/47cfr76.1904.htm
http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/09nov20051500/edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2005/octqtr/pdf/47cfr76.1904.pdf

( all the rules are in http://wireless.fcc.gov/rules.html )

This problem appears to be centered to Canada.   None of the above rules apply here.  No rules apply here for CGMS, actually.   So the cable companies, so far Shaw, and recently it appears Star Choice, and Rogers, have decided to abuse it.

My response from Shaw was "ya, we know.   We don't support Microsoft PVRs, complain to them, not us.  If you want to record everything again, buy a Shaw PVR, it has no problems recording any channels"

as well as:

How do you capture it in Windows?  I can build a graph with VBI Scope easy enough to view Line 21 data, but don't know of any way to capture the VBI pin output to a file.   If you can point me to a directshow filter that does that, I can do some captures for you , if you like.

Here's a still shot with VBI-Scope:
http://members.shaw.ca/randyg/DRM/Line21_VBIscope.JPG

(although this was was more fun:)
http://members.shaw.ca/randyg/DRM/P2100005.JPG

Jessica Zahn from March of 2007

Glad you bumped this thread - I just got information yesterday that I needed to post.

We worked with an MVP (Jason Tsang) in Canada to capture lots of streams from all different channels to see whether the cable company was putting CGMS-A flags on content that we wouldn't expect to find it on.

The end result is, the cable company is doing this. We can't tell if it's deliberate or accidental on their part; however, we don't just interpret noise in the signal as "Copy Never" or another CGMS-A flag. We require that we see a certain number of those flags within a particular amount of time for a given show - and if we do, we obey them. That could mean stopping a recording or failing to record something at all.

So this isn't, to us, a software problem. Media Center obeys CGMS-A flags. I know pretty much everyone here wishes we didn't, but we do.

But it does seem, at least to me, that it's a business and relationship problem with the cable companies doing it. I am informing the right people here about what we found, and it's my hope that they take this up and work with the cable companies to solve it. I can't guarantee any particular action, and honestly I can't guarantee any action at all. But I can and will push for it.

it's been well over a year, and we still have not had an iota of change towards getting this fixed. 

It *IS* fixed.  

You didn't copy the post from TIM yet.   He says *if* you disconnect your cable box / satellite box / whatever set top box.   And IF you run straight analog cable into your PVR.   THEN you can record whatever you want in Canada.   In VISTA.   Someday soon.

BUT  - if you disconnect your set top box, then all the channels that you can't record WON'T BE AVAILABLE anymore anyway.   So problem solved, right?   If you can't get the channels to begin with that have CGMS-A, then it's *fixed*.   Enjoy your 7 channels :-)

LOL

(sarcastically)

Give up.  Nobody's fixing it.   EVER.     *they*  *don't*  *care*

This whole thread has been one big debacle.  I don't know how they expect MC to expand if this is the type of support and quality of product they intend on providing.  Why would we use mc if we can't trust it to record the shows that we are not home to watch.  I'm surely not going to set the mc and the dvr to record the same show just in case mc gets finicky and accepts the cgms-a flag that the dvr from the cable co. gladly ignores.  Not to mention the fact that cgms-a is only supposed to be used for ppv and vod if used at all, and that cgms-a is not supposed to prevent recording altogether, only the amount of times that the item can be copied.  When I get the cgms-a error I can't even watch the item live while not recording.  What a crock of ****.

RandyG:

It *IS* fixed.  

You didn't copy the post from TIM yet.   He says *if* you disconnect your cable box / satellite box / whatever set top box.   And IF you run straight analog cable into your PVR.   THEN you can record whatever you want in Canada.   In VISTA.   Someday soon.

BUT  - if you disconnect your set top box, then all the channels that you can't record WON'T BE AVAILABLE anymore anyway.   So problem solved, right?   If you can't get the channels to begin with that have CGMS-A, then it's *fixed*.   Enjoy your 7 channels :-)

LOL

(sarcastically)

Give up.  Nobody's fixing it.   EVER.     *they*  *don't*  *care*

I just want them to admit they don't care, and won't be fixing it

This keeps trying to fall off of the 1st page due to MS' high interest in providing a working dvr system. 

Wow, so they've released a fix for this for Vista.  Now how about all of the MCE 2005 users who have been having this issue and posting about it for a year and a half.?

jholliday69:

Wow, so they've released a fix for this for Vista.  Now how about all of the MCE 2005 users who have been having this issue and posting about it for a year and a half.?

If you were looking for a reason to upgrade to Vista, this might be it.

superswiss:

jholliday69:

Wow, so they've released a fix for this for Vista.  Now how about all of the MCE 2005 users who have been having this issue and posting about it for a year and a half.?

If you were looking for a reason to upgrade to Vista, this might be it.

No, that is actually a reason for me to dump MS altogether.  I've already replaced my laptop with a Mac.  If they won't fix the 2 year old problem that I've been having with a product of theirs that I purchased, I'm not going to invest more money with other products of theirs that will receive the same type of support.  I've had too many headaches to throw any more money at them.

Ummm... you know that this update ONLY applies if you have very basic cable, right?   Satellite boxes, Cable boxes, digital cable box/tuner, etc anything that uses the "bug" to change the channel = same old, same old.

Upgrade to Vista so I can get the patch which disallows connecting my cable box to my PVR completely?

Not even watching any of the "upper" channels anymore is better than not being able to record some of them?

Dunno how exactly that's a fix.   ROFL.   No thanks.

Hey you guys,RandyG, Tikker,Davidinct,others,I can't believe you guys stuck it out this long! extraordinary patience.Yeah Jessica bailed out,(promotion)before it got too hot for her to handle,huh?Now theres Tim (damage control) to hem ,haw some more.Ha!Wow M$ must be drinking their own kool-aid,they try to give their customers (victims)

Jholiday69 I really like your writing eloquence and I agree whole heartedly with your posts sir!

Is thera a viable alternative for a non M$  Media center pc? I never even installed my copy of mce 2005 pre update roll-up 2.because of what I read on this particular thread.I seen this coming a year ago,damn shame.

 

SageTV, Media Portal, MythTV, and a bunch of others will all do what MCE won't

SageTV also has extenders that are cheaper than the MCE ones, and have more functionality