Chris - Moderator:

There is no such thing as a Broadcast Flag that limits recording of the content.  The Broadcast Flag, by definition, limits distribution of content but is not supposed to stop you from making a 1st generation copy.  This was clearly a bug, and I'm interested to know any other issues people have had recording OTA broadcasts.

Hi Chris

I was using OTA for the recording when it happened.

PS this is the first time its happened too me.

 

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Richard Miller Media Center MVP 2006

Hi Chris
I think that there is.  CCI has a "COPY NEVER" flag.  CCI is for cable cards but it appears that it's being used in this case for OTA.

Link to google ppt conversion of a CCI document.  There is not much information on "Broadcast Flag" but there are a few links on CCI which is wha the real name for Broadcast Flag is.

CCI just means Copy Control Information, that doesn't mean the Broadcast Flag=OpenCable Protection.  CCI covers tons of stuff, from CGMS-A to Broadcast Flag, to OpenCable Protection, to WMDRM, to CSS on DVDs, to copy protection for audio CDs, etc.

I think the biggest problem with the Broadcast Flag is the lack of good sources of information.  The EFF and alike do nothing but distort what is actually there.  The concept for the BF has been around since 2002.  The FCC kept shooting it down as an official mandate, and thus it kind of died off.  The flag is easy to place in a broadcast, but content is always supposed to be recorded (if you read from the EFF you most likely think it is meant to limit all recordings forever) and nothing officially supports it.

Even the Wikipedia article is nothing but trash, the only sources that are cited are riders are votes in the Senate.  The background doesn't cite a single source at all!

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Chris Lanier
The Green Button Forum Moderator

Regardless of the what the flag is meant to do, the improper application of it to OTA and basic cable shows is causing media center to not record, and sometimes even play live these shows.  MS has had a year and a half to fix this issue.

No.  If this is the "Broadcast Flag" this is completely different then CGMS-A issues that this thread is really about.  The two are not the same.  Broadcast Flag would only apply to ATSC (digital) OTA transmissions.  CGMS-A would only apply to analog broadcasts.  Had Microsoft fixed the CGMS-A issue, this recent BF issue would still exist.

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Chris Lanier
The Green Button Forum Moderator

Ok, my mistake, I took the two of them to be all of the same nature. 

Well, actually the FCC *adopted* it as an official mandate, and then the American Library Association, Public Knowledge, EFF, and consumer groups challenged it in court, and the court struck it down. There were several attempts to get it passed in Congress as a tech mandate, but none made it to a vote.

I agree that one of the problems is that there's *the* broadcast flag, and then there's the raft of other copy controls that get included under that term. EFF has always tried to be very specific about the BF itself, but I think in some ways its inevitable that the term expanded to cover other signals that block people from just saving a stream to an ordinary file.

Apparently NBC got the message:

http://tinyurl.com/4ovxl8

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Mr. Klay Anderson, D.A.,Q.B.E.
Klay Anderson Audio, Inc.

Klay_Anderson:

Apparently NBC got the message:

http://tinyurl.com/4ovxl8

To me, the problem isn't with NBC (although they're definitely not helping)--it's with Microsoft.  When an *optional* technology so obviously hurts it users, why would Microsoft choose to implement said technology?  If it wasn't for the promise of the DirecTV tuners, I would seriously look at other media center applications.

Michael

Michael Walker:

To me, the problem isn't with NBC (although they're definitely not helping)--it's with Microsoft.  When an *optional* technology so obviously hurts it users, why would Microsoft choose to implement said technology?  If it wasn't for the promise of the DirecTV tuners, I would seriously look at other media center applications.

Michael

Well-said. Exactly what I've been screaming.

Also, I will be interested to find out what concessions or agreements were made to DirecTV to fufill the "promise" of DirecTV tuners.  DirecTV just started enforcing a policy this month that any PPV movies recorded to your DVR are only available for 24 hrs. after you start watching it.  This was really disappointing for those of us with kids who like to watch a movie a dozen or so times before they're done with it.  Now our choice is to purchase the DVD for $12.99 when it is released or get the DirecTV PPV 6 or 8 months later for $4.99 and only be able to watch it once (which one do you think we pick?)

If Microsoft kowtowed to all of DirecTV's demands (which I am sure they did, since they don't give a rat's a$$ about their customers), look to not be able to record PPV or HBO as the first limitation to pop-up with the DirecTV/Media Center implementation.  I am sure others will follow after DirecTV and Microsoft have made their money off this package.

WRK

I know, no matter how glorious it sounded in print, has anyone wondered how that DirecTV box is even possible to go to consumer purchase considering the CableLabs OEM mandate?  I'm amazed that I'll be able to buy one considering I build my own PCs.  How does Direct know I have a "protected path" more than CL?  Shouldn't I then be able to buy the ATI DCT?  CableLabs would have to adjust or lose biz I would think no?

I'm glad to see that the NBC flag was "inadvertent". However, as many of you know, there's a rash of recording difficulty out there on VMC. This has happened to me with NBC, ABC, TNTHD and now HDNet. This is similar to other users experience.

Could it be that the one-time broadcast flag created this havoc? I don't understand the relationship between these issues.

Coincidence? I think not.   kklemme

tsh:

I know, no matter how glorious it sounded in print, has anyone wondered how that DirecTV box is even possible to go to consumer purchase considering the CableLabs OEM mandate?  I'm amazed that I'll be able to buy one considering I build my own PCs.  How does Direct know I have a "protected path" more than CL?  Shouldn't I then be able to buy the ATI DCT?  CableLabs would have to adjust or lose biz I would think no?

Cables Labs certifies a tuner to work with any number of differnt cable services throughout the country, where DirecTV is a single entity and arent subject to anywhere near the scrutiny of the FCC compared to your local cable operator, DirecTV is a "walled garden" and doesnt have to worry about interoperablitiy between satelite providers for their hardware.

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Marvin on Disapproving Rabbits

The thing I don't get is why all the hype all of a sudden for American Gladiator and Medium??? This issue is not new, what has triggered all the media attention, and how do we get more of this media attention to get Microsoft to finally do something about this!!!

I have been following this thread for over a year now (March 2006) and the issue (which is CGMS-A  or a "broadcast flag" which ever now, I'm not even sure) has never been resolved...And I still get the famous "Recording canceled due to restrictions from the broadcaster" on premium Movie channels (The movie network here in Canada) and on major networks, not all the time but still IT SHOULD NOT HAPPEN AT ALL!!!

According to one of Microsoft's reps (Jessica) back in December they were close to the promised "FIX" and was FINALLY ready, scheduled for release in January.  

Then Jessica left and we never heard from her again.

Then Ian came on and said they "pulled it"  Feb 6th.  He said he'd try to keep us informed.

Then we never heard from Ian again.

The only way to get this fixed is to get more media attention, maybe Microsoft will wake up...

 

Denis 

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Denis