Home
Blogs
Forums
Files


Welcome to The Green Button          Sign in | Join | Help

Recording canceled/stopped due to Copyright restrictions

Last post 05-27-2008, 7:48 PM by Chris - Moderator. 777 replies.
Page 14 of 52 (778 items)   « First ... < Previous 12 13 14 15 16 Next > ... Last »
Sort Posts: Previous Next
  •  05-18-2007, 11:13 AM 188163 in reply to 188159

    Re: Recording canceled/stopped due to Copyright restrictions

    The best option in my mind is for Microsoft to disable CGMS-A support when the EPG is setup with a Canadian zip/postal/whatever y'all have up there.

    That way, it is still supported in the US and in Canada where there are clearly issues with the regulation of the protection it will be disabled.

    Chris Lanier
    The Green Button Forum Moderator
  •  05-18-2007, 11:29 AM 188168 in reply to 188159

    Re: Recording canceled/stopped due to Copyright restrictions

    frickinmuck:
    RandyG:


    I suggest buying some signal filters.



    could you please elaborate on these signal filters? I am pretty much willing to try anything to get this to work properly, but I admit I don't know enough about the technology to come up with informed options.

    of course, the alternative is to download these shows illegally, so that we can actually watch them at our convenience. I love how the DRM cabal are always backing consumers into the same corner.


    Yep, isn't that funny.  I never downloaded a TV show in my life until DRM forced me to get Stargate Atlantis that way when MCE started to refuse to record it in January...

    As for illegal... well I would LOVE to see a judge make a ruling for downloading a show that as a legal paid cable subscriber you were fully entitled to see but DRM prevented it.  I bet the judge would find it retarded as well, and the outcome of the case would create a legal precedent laying the way for a class action suit against these cable providers where only their own PVRs can currently record all the channels you pay to get.

    Google for CGMS CABLE FILTER, there are several to pick from.  Sima is a popular one.
    http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&channel=s&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=Z2l&q=CGMS+cable+filter&btnG=Search&meta=



  •  05-18-2007, 12:45 PM 188188 in reply to 188163

    Re: Recording canceled/stopped due to Copyright restrictions

    Ok it has taken far longer than the 3 weeks that Shaw was suppose to take to respond to the CRTC, however they have finally responded to my CRTC complaint and here is what SHAW response was:

    Dear -------,  (CRTC reps name removed out of respect for his help)

     This is in reply to your email that references customer inquiries the CRTC has received concerning encoding HDTV signals with copy protection flags.  This is apparently preventing certain consumer equipment from recording these programs.  The inquiries also suggest that Shaw is doing this to encourage the sales of Shaw’s HD PVRs. We apologize for the delay in responding. We were not aware that a further response was required given the matter was raised outside of the normal complaint process.   

    We can confirm that Shaw Cable does not alter or curtail any of the programming that we receive and distribute from programmers with respect to any copy protection flags.  The content is passed through seamlessly to any device as it is received.  Any copy protection flag that is in the content has been placed there by the rights holders, or by the programming service in accordance with their contractual arrangements with the rights holders. As the Commission is aware, right holders do this to protect their rights and to prevent unauthorized duplication and transmission of the content, particularly with respect to digital content.  

    Shaw’s network controlled HD PVRs allow content to be recorded for personal use, in accordance with the terms of agreements with the rights holders for this type of equipment. However, the playback of the content to a digital recording device (eg. A PC or DVD-R) will have Copy Control Information (CCI) and Copy Generation Management System for Analog (CGMS-A) flags in place (if present in the content) to prevent unauthorized digital duplication and transmission of the content. With respect to customers who are having problems trying to record content on their PCs, this has nothing to do with Shaw.  We suspect it is a compatibility issue, or a rights management issue.   

    We hope this information is helpful to you.

    ----------

    So, as I read it, Shaw is saying that the flags are being added by the Movie networks and the media companies who provide them the channels that they redistribute.

    I also find it very interesting that Shaw is basically saying that their interpretation of the implementation of the CGMS-A flag is very different from Microsoft's... Shaw seems to say that the implementation in their PVRs allows recording of the show... just not duplication of it.

    Sure Microsoft is a big target for copy infringement lawyers but so are the Cable companies who put out these PVR devices... I think (and I bet consumers in general will think) Microsoft has gone too far with their implementation of DRM in regards to the way they handle the CGMS-A flag. I believe that once protected content is recorded on an MCE machine that the MCE box already reasonably well protects that show from being copied or played back on other machines. Recording for time shifting purposes is not copying in my books... so I personally don't see recording as copying and therefore not really violating the spirit of the "copy never" flag. Obviously my opinion is not important, however it also sounds like the same pinioning that the cable companies and PVR manufactures for those guys hold. Their implementation sounds like they interpret the flag as recording for time shifting is ok but you can't copy the file that you recorded.

     

     

     

  •  05-19-2007, 2:43 PM 188325 in reply to 188168

    Re: Recording canceled/stopped due to Copyright restrictions

    RandyG:
    Google for CGMS CABLE FILTER, there are several to pick from.  Sima is a popular one.
     Will these work if you are using a digital cable box hooked up to your HTPC? 
  •  05-20-2007, 12:50 AM 188365 in reply to 188325

    Re: Recording canceled/stopped due to Copyright restrictions

    You can add Bell ExpressVu to the list of Canadian companies sending out copy restrictions embedded in their broadcasts.

    This problem started become significant somewhere around November, 2006 and has been getting worse.

    I asked a friend (with the tools) to examine the video coming out of his set top box and sure enough, in line 21, the broadcast flags are being set every now and then on certain channels.  Strangely, they are not set continuously.  Instead they are off most of the time and seem to turn on almost randomly throughout the video broadcasts for several frames, often only during commercials or transitions, but also quite often during the actual show.  It seems that more and more channels and more and more shows on channels affected are having the flags set these days.

    Looking through the 100's of shows that didn't get recorded, specifically with a copy restriction in the Media Center log, I can see it is mostly the children's channels that we see this on.  YTV, channels 551 & 552 and Discovery Kids, channel 559, have the most copy refusals, but I also see a lot on the Woman's Network, channel 602 (although we don't record any series consistently from them, so the problem is likely more significant) as well as many other channels.

    The other thing that ExpressVu does not do correctly is transmit the parental control information (v-chip) which is also supposed to be included on line 21.  Again, line 21 data seems to randomly appear throughout the broadcasts on certain channels.  Speedvision, channel 416, is one which regularly includes erroneous r-rated video frames (typically several video frames in a row).  This is a major pain for Media Center, because it doesn't know how to deal with these short "blips".  What happens is the "enter code" screen pops up for a few seconds and goes away.  This happens over and over throughout the show, each time disabling the video for a fraction of a second and the sound for a few seconds.  If you try to pause it and enter the code it typically doesn't work.  My theory is since the video keeps playing for a period after the screen pops up and the flag turns back off, Media Center doesn't think the code is entered for any reason.  The only way to get the parental control password accepted is to pause the show and skip frame by frame until the "enter code" pops up and then enter the code.

    I followed up on this with ExpressVu.  At first they insisted the problem was bugs within Media Center (I believe this was from their internal on-line knowledge base).  When I insisted the line 21 data was output by their set top box they responded with "MCE is totally not supported and not recommended".  I escalated the calls asking why parental controls don't work since v-chip data on line 21 is required by the CRTC, but higher level techs had the same message.  Their attitude was that no one should be using 3rd party PVRs with ExpressVu.  They also stated that their own guide data contains complete parental control support for their PVRs and set top boxes so if I wanted a PVR to be able to record my kids shows as well as provide parental controls for other channels I should buy or rent one of their PVRs.  They sent me an e-mail with links to their PVRs.

    I also contacted the CRTC regarding ExpressVu's not using line 21 data correctly and it turns out the CRTC, while not willing to control copy protection, is willing to enforce parental controls (to some extent at least by exerting pressure on them with regard to license renewals).

    There are several other parties fighting for some of this; at least with the v-chip data not being correct.  Here is a link to a letter/complaint from the Canadian Association of Broadcasters to the CRTC regarding ExpressVu not complying with a number of things, including line 21 data (I believe these guys are also concerned with increasing copy protection):

    http://www.cab-acr.ca/english/research/03/sub2_sep2503.pdf

    "ExpressVu is not passing through V-Chip encoding

    1. 48. Programmers have been required to encode programming in accordance with the CAB’s Violence Code since 2001. This was a major initiative of the television broadcast industry and internationally Canada led the way in providing effective notification for children and parents on programming that may not be appropriate for certain audiences.

    2. 49. At the present time, ExpressVu does not pass the V-Chip encoding on to its subscribers, thereby frustrating the entire initiative. This state of affairs must be immediately corrected, otherwise access to critical programming information will be denied to DTH subscribers. Accordingly, ExpressVu should be required to pass on V-Chip encoding to subscribers by way of condition of licence. "

    I don't know what the best solution is to this problem, but for us Canadians, I would agree that since the broadcasters are not following the rules, the main question is why should Microsoft?  There do not appear to be any laws that specify that Canadian PVRs have to comply with the copy protection setting encoded within line 21.

    Likely one of the biggest issues here is Microsoft is still trying to convince broadcasters that Media Center is safe from a DRM point of view.  This is essential in order to gain the ability to record HD content and is also important with SD content from pay TV and certain premium channels.  Unfortunately the broadcasters appear to have made the decision already that they are going to resist hard any 3rd party (Microsoft, etc.) supplying PVRs for their networks and try to force customers to buy their own PVR solutions.

    Unfortunately, once again, the consumer suffers.


    STB w/R5000HD USB I/O, Gigabyte GA-P35-DS4, Quad Q6600, 4.0 GB RAM, ATI HD 3870 512MB, Ultra XVS 600W PSU, 3x SATA 500GB, 2x SATA 300GB, LG GGC-H20L, PVR-250, Toshiba 51H83 (51" HDTV), Yamaha RX-V2400 Amp, 5x Energy Speakers, SVS Sub, Harmony 880 Remote
  •  05-21-2007, 6:16 AM 188526 in reply to 188365

    Re: Recording canceled/stopped due to Copyright restrictions

    I'm having a similar issue with my cable.  It's Comporium Communications in Rock Hill, SC.

    I can't watch or record A&E.  about 30 seconds in to it, it locks you out with the restricted content message.  You can change the channel and then back to A&E and it will play again for about another thirty seconds before throwing up the screen.  Happens during shows or commercials just randomly.

    This is over multiple clean installs of Vista.  The problem did not happen on MCE2005 and was not (IIRC) present in the beta and RC builds of Vista.

  •  05-21-2007, 6:29 AM 188528 in reply to 188526

    Re: Recording canceled/stopped due to Copyright restrictions

    bearxor:

    I'm having a similar issue with my cable.  It's Comporium Communications in Rock Hill, SC.

    I can't watch or record A&E.  about 30 seconds in to it, it locks you out with the restricted content message.  You can change the channel and then back to A&E and it will play again for about another thirty seconds before throwing up the screen.  Happens during shows or commercials just randomly.

    This is over multiple clean installs of Vista.  The problem did not happen on MCE2005 and was not (IIRC) present in the beta and RC builds of Vista.

    Are you using the Microsoft codecs? If not change back to the MS codecs and reboot.


    Wes - Vista Ultimate Dell 4600 3.20 ghz 2gb ram 80gig OS 200gig PVR
  •  05-21-2007, 7:01 AM 188534 in reply to 188528

    Re: Recording canceled/stopped due to Copyright restrictions

    Looks like a long thread... the "Restricted Content" blue screen for me started happening on my "old" MCE2005 system (untouched other than MS Critical Updates...) about a month or two ago... finally fed up with it so I checked TGB.com and found this thread.  Details:

    - Cable company: Time Warner Cable (analog)

    - City/State or Province/Country: Cary, NC USA

    - Channel attempting to watch to record: We channel (AMC channel too I believe)

    - Show attempting to watch or record: any show... ~10 sec a "Restricted Content" blue info screen - no live TV, or recorded TV

    MCE2005 system w/RU2 - was working "for a long time" w/o issues.  Perhaps after a recent Windows Update, did this issue surface for me.  No hardware changes or software changes that I am aware of...

    Regards,
    - Kirk

    P.S.  BTW, the system in my .SIG is *not* the problematic system... I think my main HTPC system still "works" on those two channels... that system uses two Time Warner Cable Digital STBs, connecting to the two NVTV cards... the system I am complaining of is a retail (small formfactor) WinBook JIV system w/analog cable... it has a "built-in" cable TV tuner.  Will check tonight to verify the Digital STBs on the NVTVs are working (S-video inputs) wrt. the two channels in question...


    Intel Core 2 Extreme quad core 2.93GHz-8M/Intel S975XBX2 "Bad Axe II"/Corsair 2GB DDR2-800/Nvidia 8800GT XXX PCI-E/Dual AverMedia M780 Combo HDTV/Seagate Barracuda ES2 1.0TB SATA RAID/Sony DRU-710A DVD-RW/XBOX 360 as Media Center Extender
  •  05-21-2007, 7:16 AM 188545 in reply to 188528

    Re: Recording canceled/stopped due to Copyright restrictions

    Yes, been using them from when I started using Vista.
  •  05-21-2007, 7:18 AM 188547 in reply to 188534

    Re: Recording canceled/stopped due to Copyright restrictions

    Have any of the US residents tried calling and/or emailing the FCC about their specific issues? It sounds like one of the earlier posters got good results out of this. Cable operators are NOT allowed to put the "copy never" on streams that aren't PPV or VOD according to FCC regulations, at least last time I checked. Despite the bad rep that the FCC has in the technical community, they generally seem willing to make sure that their regulations get complied with.

    Unfortunately, this thread is REALLY giving me some concerns about using Windows Vista Media Center as my HTPC system. I don't want to spend $150 on a PVR-500 only for it to randomly not work... I know you're working hard to try to resolve this to our satisfaction, Jessica, so keep it up! I greatly appreciate that you interface with the community in a forum like this one. :)
  •  05-21-2007, 8:55 AM 188586 in reply to 188547

    Re: Recording canceled/stopped due to Copyright restrictions

    I just noticed nearly EVERY channel on my DirecTV now gived this message...

    I hit the reset button on the DirecTV receivers, and they now are recording.

    Try resetting your cable box or satellite box, that solved it for me (for today anyway...)

  •  05-21-2007, 10:12 AM 188608 in reply to 188586

    Re: Recording canceled/stopped due to Copyright restrictions

    DIRECTV doesn't use CGMS-A. So it's not the same issue. But it's good to know about that, too.
    This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
  •  05-21-2007, 12:05 PM 188636 in reply to 188608

    Re: Recording canceled/stopped due to Copyright restrictions

    Just a note on my post above.  We are using MCE 2005 at the moment and having this problem.

    Also, one typing correction:  Speed Vision is 417, not 416.

    Luckily at least 90% of programing does actually record fine (sometimes its a show that isn't on again that it happens to though).  That's another point.  With all of the children's shows that this happens to, it seems that very often when the same show is aired again, there is a good chance it will record fully this time.


    STB w/R5000HD USB I/O, Gigabyte GA-P35-DS4, Quad Q6600, 4.0 GB RAM, ATI HD 3870 512MB, Ultra XVS 600W PSU, 3x SATA 500GB, 2x SATA 300GB, LG GGC-H20L, PVR-250, Toshiba 51H83 (51" HDTV), Yamaha RX-V2400 Amp, 5x Energy Speakers, SVS Sub, Harmony 880 Remote
  •  05-21-2007, 12:14 PM 188638 in reply to 176207

    Re: Recording canceled/stopped due to Copyright restrictions

    Well, this issue has made it's way to Slashdot now.
             http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/07/05/21/0138255.shtml

    Frank

  •  05-21-2007, 3:55 PM 188690 in reply to 183363

    Re: Recording canceled/stopped due to Copyright restrictions

    Hello Jessica, I have been reading through this list of DRM issues and just wanted to let you know I also have the issue on certain channels. I don't know if specific shows on other channels have the problem but I do know I have certain channels that are blocked completely from just viewing at all.

     

    I am in Houston, Texas

    Time Warner Cable

    American Movie Classics and a copule others are blocked. This list seems to be increasing over time.

Page 14 of 52 (778 items)   « First ... < Previous 12 13 14 15 16 Next > ... Last »
View as RSS news feed in XML
About TGB | Advertise | Link To Us | Donate | Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy
© 2003-2007 The Green Button, Inc. - All Rights Reserved