JasonT:

Look in your History File (it's under Recorded TV, Scheduled, History or something like that) Then sort by status.

Been there, done that.   That helps you browse to look at errors but that doesn't help if you want to email this info to the CRTC, or to Jessica.  Shouldn't there be an easy way to pull it out of files instead or parse it into a text file?

JasonT:

Look in your History File (it's under Recorded TV, Scheduled, History or something like that) Then sort by status.

thanks! this is just what I needed.

not recorded:

dracula: dead and loving it - movie central encore avenue 16/04 7:00am - 8:30am.
the wrong guy - movie central encore avenue 18/04 4:45pm - 6:15pm
where the lilies bloom - movie central encore avenue 07/05 4:00pm - 5:45pm

partial:

lost - KOMO 04/04 10:00pm. recorded only 31 minutes
house - CHAN 06/04 8:00pm. recorded only 39 minutes
lost - CIVT 25/04 7:00pm. recorded only 29 minutes

There were others that did only partial recordings, but the history states they were due to signal problems, so I haven't listed them here, although I haven't experienced any signal problems, so this seems odd. still, I have only had this computer for a few weeks, so I'm sure there will be loads more added to this list before the issue is resolved.

I have the exact same problem, except I am in Pennsylvania, with Armstrong cable.

Pre RU2 was good, but now I can't even watch (let alone record) AMC (American Movie Classics) with out getting the "restricted content" message.

Very frustrating.

JessZahn:

So, everything comes down to this:

-- Cable companies may be doing the "wrong" thing with CGMS-A. We can attempt to work with them to get them to do the "right" thing (i.e. not putting "Copy Never" on re-runs of "Friends.")

-- Microsoft's implementation of CGMS-A may be stricter than other PVR devices. This is likely more of a political/business issue, and any changes we could make would need to be decided at the MS VP level (as it was initially). These discussions are happening, but it's a complex issue and isn't as black and white for us as it may be to end-users.

-- End-users may interpret "correct" behavior - failing to record - as a bug because they wanted the recording to happen. This would be because the cable company used CGMS-A properly on content they're supposed to put it on and Media Center respected it.

So Jessica,

         Since the "wrong" vs "correct" behaviour that you are referring to and that Microsoft is basing their implementation on is based on government legislation...

and since governments are regional...

and since there are already a bunch of things that work differently in Canada because of "regional" issues like the restrictions of not being allowed to use OTA based on our region not having OTA focused program guide information available... even though we could easily get by through leveraging other channel program guides that directly relate to the OTA channel...

What is Microsoft's view or position on simply not enforcing this CGMS-A behaviour in regions where it is not required or legislated (especially since the Canadian content providers don't seem to respect other regions legislation)?

Just because enforcing CGMS-A as a "do not record on the MCE at all" is deemed the correct behaviour in the US region, doesn't necessarily mean it is the correct behaviour in other regions, does it?

Toggling it based on US vs Non US regions seems like a really easy fix that should have less political/business fall out than changing its behaviour in the US region. This would also be a quick fix for the majority of users that are getting burned by this issue right now (users in Canada), while the MS VP's work on a longer term strategy and work out the complexities to create a single solution that works across all regions and keeps all parties happy regardless of how nice they play or the colour of their flag.

I see a technical issue with the logic of CGMS in MCE unrelated to the political/legal issues.

MCE is really recording a stream, not a "show".  Because of this:

• You don't know if the part of the stream with CGMS-A bits was from the previous/next show (since they usually overlap and you often get the last 1-180 seconds from the previous show or the first 1-180 seconds for the next show for most recordings).
• Other content in the middle of the show could have the bits set (commercials, movie/TV trailers, etc.) but not the "show" content (so you'll bail out in the middle of recording/viewing some rerun because of a Sopranos commercial).  Maybe there is some threshold you have to go over, but the more commercials per hour there are, the more likely you are to go over the threshold and bail out of the recording.
  
• Content owners wishing to protect the content will most likely have the bits set through the entire recording so bailing out in the middle would never happen (maybe this was actually the original design logic and bailing out after 13 minutes wasn't an expected scenario).  In the scenario where CGMS bits show up after 13 minutes why should MCE consider the entire show non-recordable (especially since the user can manually restart the recording after the bits come through if they are present)?
  
• Cable companies can send out random short bursts of these bits as sabotage (but get away with it by calling it an unintentional "glitch").  Fine, if it's a glitch, I'd rather have a 10 second video "dropout" than a bunch of cancelled recordings and a basically non-functional MCE.

Why suddenly cancel a recording in the middle instead of just "blacking out" the portion with the bits set and just showing "copy protected content" over that portion of the video?  This doesn't solve the abuse hole left open to the cable companies (they could broadcast more and longer chunks of CGMS-A bits), but it would solve the first couple issues above.

17,141 as if today...

At this point, it's unlikely I'm going to have anything to say for a while. We've presented the results of our investigation to the right people; they need to decide whether to take action, and what action that will be.

---

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

I wrote a letter to the CRTC complaining about CGMS-A here is my letter

My cable provider is Rogers Cable.  I use a computer running Microsoft Windows XP MCE to record TV shows as a PVR.  Rogers Cable has been blocking the ability of customers, such as myself, from recording certain shows by setting a do not copy flag in something called CGMS-A.  For more information see the following web forum(http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/thread/186378.aspx).  These shows can be recorded with a PVR product sold/rented by Rogers.  Are there any rules regarding CGMS-A in Canada.  If not then can you please send Rogers a cease and desist order forcing them to not restrict content with CGMS-A?  Please note that Shaw cable seems to be also doing the same thing.

and here is their response

Your concerns - while much appreciated - do not appear to raise any regulatory issues which the CRTC might further pursue on your behalf. We are not involved in the regulation of any of the technology (television or computer or intermediary equipment) which the subscriber might need or use to receive or record television signals. Nor am I aware of any other government department which might be involved. You may wish to directly contact the principal parties invovled.

So much for getting the regulators to do anything!  I hope that there isn't anyone from the cable companies reading this thread as it appears that they have carte blanche to block us from recording everything.

I wish you luck in having the CTRC actually being able to compel Rogers (and
whoever else) to fix their behaviour.

I'm not optimistic anything (positive) will happen, but if you can make them
actually do something, then all the power to you.

--
Jason Tsang - Microsoft MVP

Read my blog for the latest in Media Center topics
(and other topics that interest me)
http://jtsang.blogspot.com

More information by me
http://jtsang.mvps.org
http://www.classicsunveiled.com

Find out about the MS MVP Program -
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/default.aspx



wrote in message news:187889@10.240.6.244...
>I wrote a letter to the CRTC complaining about CGMS-A here is my letterMy
>cable provider is Rogers Cable. I use a computer running Microsoft Windows
>XP MCE to record TV shows as a PVR. Rogers Cable has been blocking the
>ability of customers, such as myself, from recording certain shows by
>setting a do not copy flag in something called CGMS-A. For more
>information see the following web
>forum(http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/thread/186378.aspx). These shows
>can be recorded with a PVR product sold/rented by Rogers. Are there any
>rules regarding CGMS-A in Canada. If not then can you please send Rogers a
>cease and desist order forcing them to not restrict content with CGMS-A?
>Please note that Shaw cable seems to be also doing the same thing.and here
>is their response Your concerns - while much appreciated - do not appear to
>raise any regulatory issues which the CRTC might further pursue on your
>behalf. We are not involved in the regulation of any of the technology
>(television or computer or intermediary equipment) which the subscriber
>might need or use to receive or record television signals. Nor am I aware
>of any other government department which might be involved. You may wish to
>directly contact the principal parties invovled.So much for getting the
>regulators to do anything! I hope that there isn't anyone from the cable
>companies reading this thread as it appears that they have carte blanche to
>block us from recording everything.
>

---

Jason Tsang - Media Center MVP
http://blog.jasontsang.ca

JasonT:

I wish you luck in having the CTRC actually being able to compel Rogers (and whoever else) to fix their behaviour. I'm not optimistic anything (positive) will happen, but if you can make them actually do something, then all the power to you.

It looks like that isn't going to happen as they have already washed their hands of the whole situation and said "Hey dude, its not our department".  I would try to complain to Rogers but I think we will be dealing with the Y10K problem before I find someone at Rogers who knows what I am talking about.

I just want to post that this issue is not restricted to Canada.  I live in Washington State, my information is below.

- Cable company  - Directv                              

- City/State or Province/Country  - Yakima, WA         

- Channel attempting to record  - Bravo, NBC, CBS, CW

- Show attempting to record- Shear Genius, Crossing Jordan, Criminal Minds, America’s Next Top Model

And any other information about what happens (stops after 5 min, stops after 13 min, comes back on later, etc).  Almost all of these stop within the first couple of  minutes.  Sometimes I can manually set it and it will finish recording, sometimes it will not.

The message is always the same, “Recording Canceled '----------' cannot be recorded. Restrictions set by the broadcaster and/or originator of the content prohibit recording of this program.”

I tend to agree with most after reading this entire thread tonight, I hope Microsoft can address this or get the cable companies to follow the fcc rules.

KC3:

I tend to agree with most after reading this entire thread tonight, I hope Microsoft can address this or get the cable companies to follow the fcc rules.

 

While I would like MS to get involved in these issues, they historicly have been a legal target, so I don't see them getting entangled other than backroom discussions which do sometimes have more impact than outright litigation. Since you do have FCC protection, have you both officially complained to the cable company so they could explain/correct? And if they couldn't/wouldn't fix, did you forward to FCC?

While I have experienced this issue, the number of problems I have is less than 1% of the shows recording & rarely more than once/twice a month, so I think either the cable company is involved (intentionally) nor do I think I have enough evidence to act on, so I havn't gone forward with either.

---

Eagles may fly, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines (see bio for exception)

KC3:

... attempting to watch or record- Shear Genius, Crossing Jordan, Criminal Minds, America’s Next Top Model

And any other information about what happens (stops after 5 min, stops after 13 min, comes back on later, etc).  Almost all of these stop within the first couple of  minutes.  Sometimes I can manually set it and it will finish recording, sometimes it will not.

The message is always the same, “Recording Canceled '----------' cannot be recorded. Restrictions set by the broadcaster and/or originator of the content prohibit recording of this program.”

I tend to agree with most after reading this entire thread tonight, I hope Microsoft can address this or get the cable companies to follow the fcc rules.

Not being able to  - watch - the channel  is a fixable problem, and is not the same as the general issue in this thread.  The strongest analog flag is "1,1 copy never".   Even with that flag, you should still be able to watch LIVE TV, just not record it. 

If you can't watch some shows live, then you probably have DRM database corruption, or mismatched DRM files (very common).   DRM update / reset should fix you up, and most likely you'll be able to record after that as well.  Lucky you ;-)

wayner9:

JasonT:

I wish you luck in having the CTRC actually being able to compel Rogers (and whoever else) to fix their behaviour. I'm not optimistic anything (positive) will happen, but if you can make them actually do something, then all the power to you.

It looks like that isn't going to happen as they have already washed their hands of the whole situation and said "Hey dude, its not our department".  I would try to complain to Rogers but I think we will be dealing with the Y10K problem before I find someone at Rogers who knows what I am talking about.

I've already made it all the way up the food chain at Shaw as well.   Their official response is "We don't support Media Center.  If it doesn't work, call Microsoft.   Or buy a Shaw PVR, it records whatever you want"

I am not holding my breath waiting for a fix any time soon either. 
That would require:

1) MS convincing Shaw/Rogers/Starchoice etc to  voluntarily sell less of their $400 to $800 PVRs (that all have no problem recording anything) so they can support Microsoft's version better.   Not gonna happen.

2) Convince the CRTC and Canadian federal government to recognize CGMS-A and enact laws for such.  At least a 10 year process, in the extremely unlikely event they even decide to get tangled up in an analog technology scheduled to be replaced by digital before the 10 year law making process would be complete.

3) Microsoft DROPPING some of the restrictions.  Given the state of MPA and RIAA, and MS driving deeper and deeper into DRM with Cable card, HDCP "protected path", blu-ray etc...
The chance of them stepping backward is less than ZERO since they'd rather not upset any of their new DRM industry friends than appease a few Media Center TV viewers with semi-functional PVRs.

4) USA invades Canada, overthrows the goverment.  Then we would have your FCC to complain to as well.  (and sadly, out of the 4 scenarios, this slim to none shot has better odds of happening than the previous three, lol)

Jessica is the very first offical Microsoft person to care about (or even try understand) this issue, and she's taken it as far as she can now (thanks Jess).   I suggest buying some signal filters.

RandyG:

I suggest buying some signal filters.

could you please elaborate on these signal filters? I am pretty much willing to try anything to get this to work properly, but I admit I don't know enough about the technology to come up with informed options.

of course, the alternative is to download these shows illegally, so that we can actually watch them at our convenience. I love how the DRM cabal are always backing consumers into the same corner.