aeroguy:

MavrickMA:

      2.) Will this card allow me to view analog cable AND OTA HD in VMC?

yes

Ok, I decided to buy this card after reading up on it here and at other sites on the net.  I have Vista Ultimate and am trying to run VMC on it using this card.  However, any time I try to go through the setup TV thing in VMC it says pops up the "Tuner Not Found" error.  The AverTV application works fine with the tuner (NTSC and QAM), as does Orb (NTSC only obviously).  I know QAM isn't supported under VMC BTW.

I have tried the Vista Premium 32-bit drivers, the drivers supplied, and the MCE 2005 drivers with it and non of them work in VMC. Can anyone help me out on this?  I have searched all over the internet and haven't found any solution to this.

As a side note, does anyone know if the this card can record/watch two NTSC programs at once?  Seems like it can't, but a couple of sites I found on the internet said it could.  Specifically the line from Aver.com "Watch one Analog or HD channel and record another, or record two different channels while watching a previously recorded program simulteneuosly"  would make me think that it possibly could for some reason.

Thanks

Yea, I struggled with this for 2 weeks. The card will accept 1 OTA Digital, and 1 OTA or Cable analog. or A/V input from Set top box. NOT 2 Digital, or 2 analog. My problem is that the card works OK with windows installed graphics driver for my 7950gt, however when I get any of the updated drivers from nvidia, my live/recorded TV lags, jerky, audio behind video, etc. It's terrible. Any help from others with this card would be appreciated.

Here are my specs: XFX590sli MB, XFX7950GT Graphics (single GPU), twin 500gb HD's SATA Stripe, OCZ Ram 2 1gb mods - 800mhz 4-4-4-15, Vista Home Premium, Samsung 22" monitor using DVI - Have also tried using RGB.

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Doug Vanden Berg www.vandenbergstereo.com

I figured the tuning only worked that way; just wanted to be sure about it though.

About your issues when you run recent nVidia drivers, which ones are you using now?  I am running Vista Ultimate 32-bit, and have the latest (v. 158.24) from nVidia for my 7600GS and the reception on the card is great; analog cable or QAM.  I assume you are running the latest drivers for your motherboard as well?  Which drivers are you using for the AverTV card?  I think I am actually using ones supplied by Windows Update.

I know I'm being lazy, but just wanted to confirm 2 things for this card....

1) If you want to use both the Analog and Digital Tuner, you need to connect BOTH Coax connections on the back? (Clear QAM and NTSC in my case).
1b) So if I put 2 of these in the machine I need *4* Coax Connections?

2) I saw mention that Vista MCE wont do Clear QAM, but will MCE 2005?
2b) I remember seeing someone in a different thread (different card too) who said in Vista in order to find the Digital channels he had to go into some special settings menu in MCE and tell it to scan for additional channels or something, and then afterwards they still werent labeled (CBS, ABC, etc) but were usable.  Am I just being naive here to think that is all you guys are missing?


Currently I have this card in a MCE 2005 mATX Dell (Bedroom)
But I am thinking of getting 2 more for my VistaUlt32 Media Server (Fam Room)
I have an old clunky P4 mATX in my office with a Haup 500MCE (with 1 faulty tuner) and a Haup 350.  But that machine only has PCI.  Any reccomendations for a PCI card with the same abilities as this M780? 1 Analog 1 Digital?  If not, what is the best reccomended Dual Analog PCI tuner for MCE 2005 these days?

Thanks a bunch.

I am running the latest MB drivers, I have tried the latest aver drivers, but they are the same as windows. Funny you mention the 7600gs, I built my friends computer and mine at the same time, he has the 7600gs and aver pci-e card, with no issues at all. We have the same xfx 590sli! What gives! I have a better video card, twice as much ram, twice the hard drive space, and a faster processor! I should not be having these issues. If it's the OCZ ram im pissed. I have a feeling it's the graphics card taking to much of the pci-e resources or somthing. either that or hdcp issue. ugh, I miss mce 2005. I'm so stuck, I cant find any forums on avermedia.com, or nvidia.com addressing this issue. Please someone help me fix my jerky aver pci-e card. ?? Maybe I will just have to buy  new tv tuner cards. I don't know.

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Doug Vanden Berg www.vandenbergstereo.com

Yes, you must make 4 connections for 2 cards, 2 analog, and 2 digital.

Neither Vista MCE nor MCE2005 will do QAM. :(

If you have and OTA tuner, and you would like listings for the digital channels, Selecting Comcast (Digital) or Charter (Digital) Etc. will provide you will some additional guide listings for such programs, Not all, but some.

If your looking for a great tuner setup for MCE2005, Best tuner found for analog: AverMedia PurityMCE250 card - Awesome! cant beat it. Use a couple of those. OTA Digital AverMedia A180 card works great. I have not been impressed with any dual tuner cards as far as quality, but they are cheap compared to getting multiple cards.

Hope this helps :)

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Doug Vanden Berg www.vandenbergstereo.com

Felix,

Is this card fully PCIe specification compliant??!

Every time I plug this x1 PCIe card into a x4 PCIe slot on my MB (in my case, Asus P5B-VM motherboard), the card is not even detected by Windows. 

Touching the tuner card however, shows that components (two silicon tuners for example) are warm to the touch, implying that there is indeed power to the card.

At present, the only way I'm able to make Windows detect this card is by putting it in the x16 video card slot and enabling the BIOS option called "PEG Force x1", which forces the x16 physical slot to operate (from chipset side) as a x1 slot for full compatibility with end-points.

The fact that I need to force a PCIe slot to x1 mode before the card works, is VERY concerning!

Please help address this issue for myself and many others like me that have the newer motherboards with x4 PCIe slots (and like in my case with a mATX MB, no x1 slots).

If I don't hear a solution in the next 2-3 days, I'm unfortunately going to have to return this card to the store in exchange for Hauppauge HVR-1800 type PCIe card.

PLEASE HELP!

Thanks.

My ASUS A8N NForce 4 motherboard would only see the card after a cold boot. After a warm boot it would just disappear.

And as far a drivers, I tried them all, and worked with their support. Terrible stuttering no matter what I did.

They also never seem to update their drivers. Huge disappointment.

Good luck...

Sorry for the delay on my reply.

AVerMedia Combo PCIe tuner M780 desinged based on PCIe specification and inded we have tested succesuully on PCIe x1and PCIex16 slots on Intel 945 and 965 chipset

Unfortunately I don't have the same ASUS motherboard in my lab, I suggest you to check BIOS setting and see if anything you need to change.

I'll try to duplicate this configuration in my lab and I'll post my reply soon

---

Felix Kolotinsky
Product Manager
AVerMedia Technologies, Inc.

If its an sli board, I don't know of any nforce4 based asus board that anything other than a video card can go into either x16 slot..   

---

Bryan Socha
Media Center MVP

Hello,

I have had the M780 for about a week now.  I ran into the stuttering problem after about 20 minutes of use in MCE 2005.  I have since resolved the problem - overheating.

Does anyone know why AverMedia's software installs multiple drivers for this card?

I installed the card with the latest drivers provided by AverMedia (2.5.0.14).  I then installed AverTV (installed the A180 driver).  I then installed the Aver Media Center sofware (installs M780 2.5.0.19).

MCE 2005 freaks out a little with all of these drivers for the same piece of hardware.

I uninstalled everything from Add/Remove programs for the M780 and reinstalled Aver Media Center only with the 2.5.0.19 M780 driver.  I can not tune in any QAM channels with Comcast.

Can someone who is able to tune in QAM channels please let me know what Add/Remove Programs lists for the M780.

Thank you,

Druthers

---

"Anything Imaginable is Possible."

Thanks for the response, Felix.

Been trying to post the message below for the past few days and not been able to post it.  Hope it makes it through this time.

Please read both parts of my response here and provide responses as appropriate.

----------------------------

Unfortunately, I finally gave up waiting and returned the card the same morning you replied (which I noticed in the evening my time).

That said, I've used the Avermedia A180 card and like its new Total Media media-center like software as well as feature vs. cost balance.  As such, I'm willing to consider re-ordering thsi card back depending on what data you can provide in this regard.

I have no other BIOS settings I can try in this regard, besides the one I mentioned above in my post (PEG Force x1).  That too, apears to only apply to the x16 slot.  I wish I could run more slots but even if I had the card, I can't think of anything besides what all I've already tried (on top of a fresh install of Windows XP).

Please post your discoveries with x4 PCIe slots and this card when you can (along with the perticular motherboard you used).  I and many other micro-ATX HTPC users like me I'm sure, are anxious to hear your results.

----------------------------------------------------------

Meanwhile, here is the ticket I submitted to Avermedia and the response I received from customer service.  As you can tell, customer service response is NOT CONSISTENT with your feedback (they claim no support for x16 slots!)  Neither a very detailed response, nor very promising for a card that's supposed to be PCIe specification compliant!   Please confirm which of the two responses - yours or the one below pasted from my ticket - is accurate and to be trusted.  

Ticket number has been removed from this post.  Feel free to refer to the original ticket via whatever internal systems are available to you.  However, please keep the ticket number / email address out of your posts for privacy reasons.


Mother Board    Asus P5B-VM    

Mother Board Chipset    G965    

CPU & Speed        2.67GHz x2 (Core 2 Duo E6700)    

System Memory    2GB    
    
Video Card  Integrated motherboard graphics (G965)    
    
Sound Card    Onboard SoundMAX ADI sound    
    
System Type    Desktop PC    
    
Operating System    Windows XP Professional    
    
Product    AVerTV Combo PCIe    


Your message on Wed, 11th Jul 2007 11:59 pm

I just bought the Combo PCIe card with high hopes but have not been able to make it work on a brand new system.

Few different problems, all related to detection:
1. my micro-ATX motherboard has 2 PCI and 2PCIe slots (one x4 and one x16 PCIe slots). I can NOT get the card to be detected in Windows, when in the x4 PCIe slot!

It's my understanding that per the PCIe spec, a x4 slot (and coresponding chipset implementation) is supposed to be capable of supporting a x1 card. Is your card not fully PCIe specification compliant??!!

2. The only way the card is detected in Windows is if I put it in the x16 graphics card slot and enable the BIOS option called "PEG Force x1", which causes the chipset to convert the x16 physical slot to a strictly x1 slot in practice, for compliance with PCIe cards that won't do proper link training etc. What's going on here?

3. When I boot into Windows with the setup described in #2 above and Windows was able to detect the card (Found New Hardware popped up), I installed the latest driver off your website ( 2.5.0.14 ) for WinXP (non-MCE) along with the latest Aver MediaCenter application posted (1.6.1.2).

While the installation went through fine, the AverQuick application in the system tray did not turn yellow in color ( i.e. didn't detect any cards). Morever, when I start Aver MediaCenter with the drivers correctly installed as mentioned above, even this tool states that it can't detect ANY Avermedia cards.

What's going on here???!!! Why when your drivers are installed correctly (as confirmed via the Device manager, including me verifying the driver versions), can't your own software not detect the cards?


Please provide help and some solution / next steps in the next 1-2 days if any are available, so I can decide accordingly whether or not to return this card back to the store this weekend.

Anxiously looking forward to hearing from you at your earliest ability.

Thanks.    

    


Message by johna on Thu, 12th Jul 2007 8:02 am

    
Hello,

Unfortunately, our card requires a PCIe 1x slot in order to be detected and function properly. A 4x or 16x slot will not work correctly.
--
*NOTE* Please do not reply to this email as it will not be answered. Please login to the website to submit replies or requests.

Regards,
Customer Care
AVerMedia USA





This is extremely disappointing and greatly frustrating.  

I escalate this as a general concern since I know that a number of motherboards these days DO ship with x4 PCIe slots.  

Felix, please help shed light as best as you can, so I (and others like me) can re-consider whether or not it's worth ordering one or more of these cards for HTPC / motherboard / chipset configurations similar to mine.

Thanks.

As I mentioned before, I was able to get the card to work inconsitanly on my ASUS N-Force 4 A8N Premium's 2nd PCIe 16 slot by forcing off SLI in the bios. But it would only appear after a cold boot. Mine's sitting here in the box, I missed the return window, but if this card only support's PCIe 1x slots, then I'm feeling pretty ripped off.

And this overheating thing makes sense. When the card did work, it would only work for about 20 minutes before it started stuttering. But I noticed that this thing runs really hot, heating up my whole system an additional 5 degrees F. Could it be that non-1x PCIe slots deliver additional power and cause this?\

-Stephen B

Right, it IS detected when placed in the graphics card specific x16 slot on my mATX as well... just not in the x4.

As for heating, not sure of the cause.  I don't recall excessive heating in my case.  Then again, I was more focused on other frustrations at the time, during the few days I had the card.


In general, my investigations / conversations with Avermedia CS / Felix so far are not all that promising about the hardware compatibility of this card.  Details are in my post above. 

One key summary: Felix explicitly calls out that they have tested this card in x1 as well as x16 slots (the latter would raise hope for this working in a x4 slot as well).  However, Avermedia CS explicitly disagrees with Felix's statement by saying that "our card requires a PCIe x1 slot in order to be detected and function properly.  A x4 or x16 slot will not work corectly."

This is not helping their case much.  Why design something that's not compliant with physically wider slots, when the card is only x1?  As far as I'm aware, the PCIe spec. requires (?) that such configurations be supported.

I'm not sure how long before - if at all - Felix is going to post an update based on additional experiments.  Here's to hoping!


Felix, any updates? 
   -  Please educate the current / could be customers on the above differences between your and customer support's responses. 
   -  Also share your discoveries from experiments you were going to consider above, as soon as you have them available.
   -  Finally, educate us on WHY it is that the card will NOT work in a x4 slot.  Sounds like a driver limitation.  If so, when can we expect a patch for this critical feature??

Been two weeks and still waiting for some kind of update!

ATI is due to come out with a PCIe x1 tuner with QAM capability last I checked, in the near future.  Without proper clarifications, I'm not too keen on keeping Avermedia on my list of cards to consider for the HTPC setup. 

Sorry to say that since your software is better featured and little less buggy than many other lesser-known brands... However you guys goofed up on the x4 / x16 (?) support, or lack thereof.  Educate us if you feel / know otherwise.

If you have read some of my other posts, you will see I have had my share of problems with this card. It might help you to know however, that I am using this card in a x4 slot, without any issues, thanks to the latest nvidia drivers. The HD playback still stutters slightly, but much better than before. I have an XFX 590sli AMD board. thought this might help.

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Doug Vanden Berg www.vandenbergstereo.com