Short Version: I am looking to build a quad+ tuner PC for use with Fios just for recording local channels that can also stream content and the recordings to a 360 and Tivo HD. Budget is under $1000.

Long Version: I just recently switched to Fios. I am coming from Directv with 4 Directivos all upgraded to around 400 hours each so needless to say I am spoiled by lots of space and the ability to record any show at anytime.

I currently have 2 Tivo HDs which I plan to upgrade eventually, most likely before the new fall season, but with HD recordings I only have 20 hours on each Tivo. I am looking to build the quad tuner to mainly handle local primetime. My other plan for the PC is to use it as a file server for the Xbox 360 with TVersity and Playon and Tivo HDs with the Tivo Desktop, Streambaby, PYTivo and KMTTG along with backing up recordings on the Tivo HDs. I may eventually also rip my DVD collection but TV is more the priority right now.

As a result I am looking for hardware and software suggestions to accomplish this. I am hoping to find something that is as reliable as the Tivos especially when it comes to recordings and guide data, but also something that records in formats I can easily stream to the 360 and Tivo HD. I have built my own PCs in the past but I have no experience with HTPCs and the more I read the more confused I become lol.

Any help would be greatly appreciated and if I missed anything please let me know.

FiOS is just a regular cable network for the most part so it's the same as comcast etc.

You're best bet will to get 2 QAM tuners and 2 Digital Cable Tuners. The QAM tuners are much much cheaper and the content doesn't have any DRM. But they only work with un-encrypted channels which isn't much on FiOS (ABC, NBC, Fox, CBS, PBS).

You can pick up a dual QAM PCI-E card for about $80 on Newegg.

ATI DCTs can record any channel from FiOS with CableCARDs, but they cost about $200 used, and about $300 new for just a single tuner. You also have to run a hack so your DIY MC will work with it. You can read how to here.
http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/05/12/how-to-install-a-cablecard-tuner-in-your-diy-media-center/

The problem with recordings from the DCT is that you can only watch them on the Media Center or on an extender like the Xbox 360. This is expected to change in the next version of the DCT firmware, but no one knows when it is going to be released/announced. (My guess is after CEDIA).

Thanks. I may just go with the quad QAM tuners then for now. Since I have the two Tivo HDs, I will use those for recording everything I can't get with the QAM tuners. I really mainly want the PC for recording locals and primetime which is where a majority of our conflicts are since you don't have the benefit of repeat airings. Also on Directv we had the E/W feeds for NBC and ABC SD so we never had to really deal with conflicts before.

At $600 a pop for dual DCT tuners, I am better off buying  and upgrading another Tivo HD with lifetime which also only requires one cable card versus two and will work with everything I already have versus limiting me to my computer and 360. I think I will pass on that for now but will definitely keep my eyes out on what develops in the future.

Is there a specific dual Qam PCI-E card that everyone seems to prefer or like the most?

If your sticking with TiVo then you may like this 3rd party app. Basically what you do is set TiVoToGo to automatically download whatever shows you want to your Media Center. Then with the help of VideoReDo (can probably make DVRMSToolBox work as well for free) it converts the .tivo files to dvr-ms and imports them into media center complete with metadata.
http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=359550

Obviously you can't watch live tv and it is limited to non-DRM'd files, but still useful.

Depending on your TiVo commitment, you might be able to sell your TiVos to cover the cost of the DCTs, which can be found online for $200 all day long. Shouldn't take you long to get your money back since you don't have to pay the monthly TiVo fees.

FYI, I had two Series 3 TiVo before I switched to Media Center.

As for a clear QAM tuner. The HDHomeRun is the most popular but runs about $150. The newest is the Avermedia AVerTV Duet PCIe. Dell has it for $65.
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?sku=A2837016&cs=19&c=us&l=en&dgc=SS&cid=39715&lid=1003763

The Avermedia AverTV HD Duet is an excellent dual QAM card - I just picked up two and am now tuning quad QAM (I was tuning quad QAM before but with more tuners) - One other thing you might consider is if you have a Fios box that has component outputs think about getting a Hava HD Platinum - It is a network based device that allows you to input an HD signal - it also has drivers to work as a tuner in VMC - the final quality isn't 1080i, maybe not even 720p, but better than DVD quality and you can record EVERYTHING that comes off your box without DRM - I have one and use it for recording HBO, and other HD channels I can't get on QAM -

One other note, many of the other QAM tuners only work if you upgrade your system with TV Pack - I used the QAM utility from Avermedia (link found on this site), so I didn't have to install TV Pack - I can still use Lifextender to cut out commercials -

And, since your recordings are in DVR-MS format, you will have a few options for auto transcoding.

bjdraw:

If your sticking with TiVo then you may like this 3rd party app. Basically what you do is set TiVoToGo to automatically download whatever shows you want to your Media Center. Then with the help of VideoReDo (can probably make DVRMSToolBox work as well for free) it converts the .tivo files to dvr-ms and imports them into media center complete with metadata. http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=359550 Obviously you can't watch live tv and it is limited to non-DRM'd files, but still useful. Depending on your TiVo commitment, you might be able to sell your TiVos to cover the cost of the DCTs, which can be found online for $200 all day long. Shouldn't take you long to get your money back since you don't have to pay the monthly TiVo fees. FYI, I had two Series 3 TiVo before I switched to Media Center. As for a clear QAM tuner. The HDHomeRun is the most popular but runs about $150. The newest is the Avermedia AVerTV Duet PCIe. Dell has it for $65. http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?sku=A2837016&cs=19&c=us&l=en&dgc=SS&cid=39715&lid=1003763

Well the two Tivo HDs I have are lifetime so the only cost now would be cablecards which would double or triple with the DCT tuners. Also I would then need to not only go from 4 DCT tuners to 8 unless I do a mix of QAM and DCT and like you said on Fios QAM is limited to locals only. The other issue then is I will need two other devices for accessing the content off the HTPC/DVR since I would no longer have the Tivos.

My plan was for the DVR to go either in my office with my WHS or out in the living room since it will need to be on most of the time for recordings but also to handle the automatic Tivo transfers. Currently I have the automatic transfers on my computer in my bedroom but I would prefer to put that in stand by when I am not actively using it. I wasn't really planning on hooking the new HTPC/DVR to any TV but more accessing it through my current PC, the Tivo HDs, or the 360.

I will probably try the Avermedia Duet then just in the current PC to see if this is truly something I will end up comfortable using that everyone in the house will easily adapt to also. They are still trying to get used to the Tivo HD as it is. I think one of my fears is as long as I have had Tivo I have never missed any recordings and I shudder to think what would happen if someone's show didn't record with the new setup. I just don't want to spend another $1000 or so + cablecard fees on two more Tivos if I can do it cheaper and as reliable on a PC.

If your TiVos have lifetime, then you'll end up with lots of extra cash out of the deal. TiVo HDs with lifetime sell for over $500 each on eBay all day long. So if you sold both of them, you'd be able to pay for four DCTs and still have over $200 left over.

As for reliability. I've been using Media Center for well over a year now and I can honestly say the ONLY time I've missed any recordings is when I was messing with the Media Center and it was down when the show was on -- something easily overcome with the help of grey market HD downloads.

And honestly that is the biggest problem for me with Media Center. There is just so many possibilities that I can't help but tinker. Which ironically is also why I love it so much.

Anyways, the number one reason I could never go back to TiVo is the way Extenders work in every room of my house vs MRV. There simply is no comparison.

As for the rest of the reasons you can check out my post from back when I first made the switch. Keep in mind that this was from the perspective of a TiVo owner who paid $1000 for a DirecTiVo HD and $800 each for two Series 3 TiVos when they were first released. So it should go without saying that I loved TiVo. (emphasis on past tense)

http://bjdraw.com/2008/04/29/its-official-vista-media-center-is-so-much-better-than-tivo/

I decided to go the 2250 + HDPVR/DVBLink route. Soon I'll have dual HDPVRs. Gets me any channel on my STB. It's a bit more costly since you're paying for the STB, but I'm through hassling with cablecards.

Buy 2 HD-Homeruns and you are good for any version of media center.  This gives you 4 QAM tuners and they connect to the network so will probably work with your current computer.  Total cost 320 on NewEgg.

Thanks everyone. I ended up ordering two of the Avermedia Duet cards from Dell for 120 after rebates. I figure this gives me a cheap way to play around to see if I want to look at a more complex setup in the future. Since I haven't really messed with them I would rather not go all out for now only to find I don't like the setup.

Now I just need to get a friend out to run lines to my PC so I can hook them up once they arrive.

Ok well the Duets came in and installed perfectly under Windows 7 RC. I tested a couple recordings and it is good for me. I do have a couple additional questions. I figured I would post them here instead of a new thread.

I only tested Windows 7 Media Center since my Vista machine is having issues. I noticed the recordings are now in a WTV file format. I have done some searching but most threads I keep finding are older. I am trying to figure out what if any other devices these will work on without encoding. I figure the 360 should work as an extender but I can't get the 360 to actually see the PC which of course sees the 360 fine so I am unable to test playback.

If nothing else works with the file format, I guess I will need to look at another option then as far as PVR software since I need some option to get playback in another room and I really don't want to buy another 360 or build another PC just for playback. If this is indeed the case, is there any other PVR software people suggest I look at particularly that have a more universal file format for easy streaming?

WTV is simply a container with MPEG-2 video and AC-3 audio -- for ATSC and clear QAM anyways.

You can easily change the container to dvr-ms or .mpg with a tool like DVRMSToolBox. This can be done on demand or with an automatic process. You can also transcode the video to h.264 or any other codec if you prefer. It really depends on what you want to use to play it back.

Great thread. I have to chime in here... I have a TiVo HD (premium content) and a VMC PC with a HDHomerun (network shows).

I can NEVER find four things on at the same time worth recording!

You have 2 TiVo HDs and a quad-tuner PC = EIGHT channels at once... what are you finding to record?

Time to get a Kindle...

bjdraw:

WTV is simply a container with MPEG-2 video and AC-3 audio -- for ATSC and clear QAM anyways. You can easily change the container to dvr-ms or .mpg with a tool like DVRMSToolBox. This can be done on demand or with an automatic process. You can also transcode the video to h.264 or any other codec if you prefer. It really depends on what you want to use to play it back.

 I was trying to avoid transcoding if I could help it but if there is truly an automatic option than it might not be so bad especially one that monitors the folders. I guess I need to go see if I can figure out DVRMSToolbox. I think I was trying to avoid transcoding in case it might cause hiccups with recordings since I would probably have both running at the same time. In the one room I will be using the 360 and in the other room I will either be pushing to the Tivo using Pytivo or Tivo Desktop or using something like Streambaby to stream if I can.

thewarm:

Great thread. I have to chime in here... I have a TiVo HD (premium content) and a VMC PC with a HDHomerun (network shows).

I can NEVER find four things on at the same time worth recording!

You have 2 TiVo HDs and a quad-tuner PC = EIGHT channels at once... what are you finding to record?

Well in the fall when primetime is back in full swing we are usually running pretty much 4-6 tuners before you even add in cable shows or other shows with limited airings. I only recently switched to Fios with Tivo HDs but I am coming from Directv where I had 4 Directivos with around 1300 hours of recording time not to mention we also had the E/W feeds for NBC and ABC. Since we switched, space will be an issue especially now with HD over SD but I also won't have the E/W feeds for more conflict options. My plan is for the PC to handle conflicts and also backup recordings. I doubt I will ever have 8 tuners going at once but I know some nights we need 5 just for primetime.

If you are just trying to play TiVo recordings on Media Center, no transcoding is required, you just have to change the container from .tivo to .dvr-ms.