I've got Vista with TV Pack 2008 and DVB-S tuner. While I applaud the DVB-S support and the new channel list interface, the EPG is completely broken. There are several channels that only show Now + Next. This is completely useless as I can't schedule recordings for shows that are not in the EPG.

Microsoft, what are going to do about this? Is there going to be a solution for this problem? I know there is a workaround by installing an analoge card. But this is not the solution.

I need some additional information to understand exactly what the issue is.  If I am reading this correctly, you aren't actually getting EPG info from MSFT... you are getting it from in-band.  We don't control this as the data comes directly from the broadcast stream, so there isn't anything we could do.  I think the workaround you mention is to subscribe to a similar channel lineup and download that EPG data from MSFT. Is this correct?

Hi Jeff,

 

Thanks for your response. I am using a DVB-S tuner to tune into satellite channels in the UK (Astra 28, Eurobird). Does the new EPG system in TV Pack 2008 “force” download of all EPG from the broadcast stream? If this is the case then I am not getting full EPG listings for quite a few channels. This may be due to the provider only showing data for Now and Next.

 

The workaround shown in the forums is to install an analogue tuner and follow the set-top-box configuration for the same channel line up. At this point you have the option to select the Sky Digital EPG channel listings from MSFT. You then have to merge the analogue channel line-up with the digital one to get the full listings. All of this is very tedious and jumping through hoops just to get a working EPG.

 

For those of us who don’t have an analogue card, it means purchasing extra hardware. This does not make a lot of sense. Why not give the consumer the choice to either use in-band or download the EPG from MSFT? It can be frustrating since the data is available but we cannot use it unless we have an analogue tuner.

Hi Jeff,

 

Thanks for your response. I am using a DVB-S tuner to tune into satellite channels in the UK (Astra 28, Eurobird). Does the new EPG system in TV Pack 2008 “force” download of all EPG from the broadcast stream? If this is the case then I am not getting full EPG listings for quite a few channels.  This may be due to the provider only showing data for Now and Next.

 

The workaround shown in the forums is to install an analogue tuner and follow the set-top-box configuration for the same channel line up. At this point you have the option to select the Sky Digital EPG channel listings from MSFT. You then have to merge the analogue channel line-up with the digital one to get the full listings. All of this is very tedious and jumping through hoops just to get a working EPG.

 

For those of us who don’t have an analogue card, it means purchasing extra hardware. This does not make a lot of sense. Why not give the consumer the choice to either use in-band or download the EPG from MSFT? It can be frustrating since the data is available but we cannot use it.

bump

...and thus this thread takes a slow death (like Vista really)

 

Wow... a couple days without a response and you think the thread is dead.  Perhaps your expectations need reset.  We actually do have day jobs. 

Regarding your issue, we don't do anything to "force" a user to use the inband data.  I don't know the exact steps you need to take (as I work on the service... not the client), but you should be able to select your source for lineup data (i.e. whether you want to use inband data or data from the Media Center EPG service).  I'm not familiar with the details of how to do this, but if there are users that are discussing this on the other threads... I'm not sure I have anything else to offer at the moment.  I assume that in the workaround they propose the analog tuner is required in the case that there is no Media Center EPG available.  So you have to either use inband data or get EPG data for another lineup and merge.  If that is the case, there is not much we could do as it is the result of us not having the listings data.

Follow up question... are you saying that your issue would be resolved if the analog lineup was available and flagged as digital?  If so, is it the same exact lineup or are there differences?

I'm not entirely sure that we can make this work, but there is a possibility that we could try duplicating specific lineups that only exist as analog.

Just as an example here in the UK i can get True Movies one and true movies two,True movies one has the full guide but True movies two only has now and next,tried all ways to set up but no luck.

In the EPG feed from our services, not inband... right?

I'm going have Joel jump in and look at this.  There is a chance that this is a data quality issue, so we'll likely need more info to investigate.  However, it may be that we just don't contract listings data for that specific channel.

Hi Jeff,

 

First of all thank you for taking time out to help us out with our queries. I really appreciate it with the busy schedules you guys + gals have.

 

The Problem

The issue here is that using “in-band” EPG data, we do not get full channel listings for some channels as they only show Now + Next. I assume this is an issue with the broadcaster who is only providing Now + Next “in-band” data and not a MS problem.

 

The History

Pre-TV Pack 2008 we were able to select the Sky Satellite analogue EPG line-up while setting up a digital or analogue tuner. Since Vista MCE did not support DVB-S, manufacturers of DVB-S tuner cards such as FireDTV and Hauppauge provided a workaround. A MCE plug-in driver that would tune into DVB-S signals and present itself as a DVB-T tuner. We then manually matched every channel to the matching analogue Sky EPG data. Using this method we were able to watch Satellite in MCE. Yes, it was a tedious process but at least we had guide data for all the popular channels.

 

The Present

Rolling forward…ever since TV Pack 2008, we no longer require the fake DVB-T workaround as TV Pack 2008 fully supports DVB-S in MCE and it works very well. The “in-band” EPG data also works pretty well however there is a problem. As described earlier, we have incomplete data in the EPG stream for some channels. The analogue line up for Sky Satellite EPG is no longer available as an option when we setup a digital tuner with TV Pack 2008. So I’m left with quite a few channels only displaying Now + Next. This is an issue for me and others as we cannot schedule recordings.

 

Current Workaround

The current workaround for the guide problem is to purchase and install an analogue tuner. Once installed, you now have the analogue Sky EPG line-up as an option in your guide setup. We then merge the analogue line-up with the digital line-up to get a complete EPG guide listing. This workaround works well however it means extra cost for the consumer to purchase a piece of hardware simply to get access to the guide data.

 

Possible Solutions

The possible solutions I can think of are:

 

1)      Make available the option of selecting the analogue Sky EPG data line-up during the tuner and guide setup wizard as how it was Pre-TV Pack 2008.

2)      Load custom EPG data from a third party source. The XML schema has been published for TV pack 2008 + Win 7. However I believe this is an impossible solution for TV Pack 2008 and thus a non-starter. I hear it is working pretty well in Windows 7 though.

 

 

Hope this helps. If you need anymore information with screen grabs etc let me know and I’ll provide them.

Paulm187, another solution instead of using the Sky EPG data would be to use the freesat EPG data that I believe is completely separate from Sky and provides a full 7 days listings for all the free to air channels that are available via this service.

 

An alternative would be to use the Freesat EPG data, this is a separate source from the Sky EPG and also have a full 7 day listing.

 

Hi Jeff

Good to see that this is being looked at, thanks.

Here's some more behaviour from my Floppy-DTV setup/VMC, which may or may not help your investigations:

"Now and Next" listings do not get refreshed in the EPG, so once the two shows have run you are left with "No Data Available". The only way to get "Now and Next" back is to view the channel and then that channel gets a new set of "Now and Next".

When manually refreshing "Now and Next" as described above, the listings for all other channels on that transponder also get updated.

BTW - I hadn't considered that the 14 day listings we are seeing could also be from the "in band" EPG source, as I always assumed these were sourced from the internet. Can you confirm that both sources are available in a DVB-S only setup out of interest?

I'm happy to provide any more info required (and test if needed), as this is now the last piece of the jigsaw puzzle in my MCE setup and the WAF would be very good with a full 14 days EPG (or even 7 days).

Fixing this would also make recommending the VMC setup to others easier as most family, friends, work colleagues etc are really impressed with my current VMC setup but are generally holding off going over to a system like this because of the amount of tweaking/fettling needed to get what comes "out of the box" from Sky themselves.

Best regards

Chris

Edit: forgot to add - many  of the channels with "now and next" are definately contracted from BDS e.g. Motors TV (Sky Ch 413).

 

 

Hi folks,

Just wanted to let you know that I'll be looking at this this morning.  I'll provide an update as I make some progress on this.

-joel