Have you looked at the utilities that are in use for cracking vista?
Maybe base your emulation on those boot/rom loaders?

vapore0n:

Have you looked at the utilities that are in use for cracking vista?
Maybe base your emulation on those boot/rom loaders?

Thats something that I'm looking at.  It would be hard to get someone to help because the user base is so small.  If we can figure out a way to bypass the Digital Cable PID I think it would become much more popular.

DanITman:

vapore0n:

Have you looked at the utilities that are in use for cracking vista?
Maybe base your emulation on those boot/rom loaders?

Thats something that I'm looking at.  It would be hard to get someone to help because the user base is so small.  If we can figure out a way to bypass the Digital Cable PID I think it would become much more popular.

I'm sure it's possable, as, if you hunt around for a while, you can get a Bios emulator to install a pre-activated version of Vista (I ran into a discussion about it one night, yes all my copies are legal).

1. Your right, the demand is there but, not as big as it's only a US thing.

2. This might not be the best place to discuss it as this is a Microsoft owned site.

No matter if you get it working and get the correct bios emulated, you still need the cablecard key, that might be a little tricky to come by....

Some motherboards (posted on, I think the Win7 fourm on here), have the OCUR bios on a off the shelf board. I guess it depends on the version of the board you get. That might be the better route...

If someone actually gets it working, please lmk....I just want to know if it's possable.

Proteus7:

With all due respect, the people at CableLabs making these decisions are utter and complete morons, ignorant of how the PC industry works.

There is no "protected content path" when one can easily go to bittorrent, through any number of websites and download the latest "content" in full HD glory within hours of release or broadcast. In fact, this easy availability, coupled with high cable fees is causing many people to seriously examine their need for cable in the first place. If we can't get what we want easily, for a reasonable price, then many will investigate getting it entirely for free! Its already readily available..there is nothing to "protect" in the first place!

On my cable PVR I can output any recording to a VCR or PC - however, and I am not sure, but the output is composite, so it is probably downscaled to 4:3. So what is it they are protecting - the HD version of the show????

You can now buy CableLabs certified PCs, like the HP m9500t for $699.  At this price it's not a stripped down model in the least.  Sure, it would be nice to build your own, but you can't use the argument at all of these PC's are priced at $1000's of dollars. They are not.

anogee:

You can now buy CableLabs certified PCs, like the HP m9500t for $699.  At this price it's not a stripped down model in the least.  Sure, it would be nice to build your own, but you can't use the argument at all of these PC's are priced at $1000's of dollars. They are not.

That's not the point. What if you have existing equipment you want to use?  What if you already own an HP and the motherboard blows up and the cost is way too expensive to fix.  The goal is not to be locked into OEM equipment.  This still does not get around the fact that you need a digital cable PID.  Mainly this for those that already have CableCard systems and want to look at alternative case and equipment options.

DavidinCT:

DanITman:

vapore0n:

Have you looked at the utilities that are in use for cracking vista?
Maybe base your emulation on those boot/rom loaders?

Thats something that I'm looking at.  It would be hard to get someone to help because the user base is so small.  If we can figure out a way to bypass the Digital Cable PID I think it would become much more popular.

I'm sure it's possable, as, if you hunt around for a while, you can get a Bios emulator to install a pre-activated version of Vista (I ran into a discussion about it one night, yes all my copies are legal).

1. Your right, the demand is there but, not as big as it's only a US thing.

2. This might not be the best place to discuss it as this is a Microsoft owned site.

No matter if you get it working and get the correct bios emulated, you still need the cablecard key, that might be a little tricky to come by....

Some motherboards (posted on, I think the Win7 fourm on here), have the OCUR bios on a off the shelf board. I guess it depends on the version of the board you get. That might be the better route...

If someone actually gets it working, please lmk....I just want to know if it's possable.

All the current emulation tools all focus on emulating the SLIC tables in the BIOS, we need to emulate the OSFR tables.  Not a huge difference but still won't work without help.

I have talked to a couple of people who have the Digital Cable PID's and are looking for a solution.  I am one of them.  I got mine off ebay.

Yes, as I have found out there are a few boards that you can buy that have the OSFR tables populated in the BIOS.  My goal is to make this work on any hardware.

mmatheny:

On my cable PVR I can output any recording to a VCR or PC - however, and I am not sure, but the output is composite, so it is probably downscaled to 4:3. So what is it they are protecting - the HD version of the show????

Interesting point.  Remember, several shows are also redistributed for sale on DVD, Blu-Ray, HULU.com, etc.  This has become a huge market and one that rakes in large piles of cash for the TV studios -- at least enough to recoup the amount they're losing in declined ad revenue due to the DVR revolution.  IMHO, CableLabs is merely the pawn in the DRM chess match to keep HD digital content out of the hands of people who are not paying for it somehow -- be it advertisements, retail purchase, subscriptions, etc.

[/rant]
With the advent of fiber optic networks and stories of 40Gb/s residential connections, I don't think there's any denying that personal storage space (Hard Disk, Flash, Solid State, etc.) is well on its way to its final stages.  If it were up to software company/MPAA/RIAA executives, everything would've been stored in the 'cloud' yesterday.  But they'll leave it up to CableLabs to bear that news to us.    [/rant]

DanITman:

vapore0n:

Have you looked at the utilities that are in use for cracking vista?
Maybe base your emulation on those boot/rom loaders?

Thats something that I'm looking at.  It would be hard to get someone to help because the user base is so small.  If we can figure out a way to bypass the Digital Cable PID I think it would become much more popular.

This is awesome - I was going down the exact same path of using the SLIC hack info to "OCURize" a non-official board a few months ago. My first attempt was on a board that did not have the OSFR ACPI table. Unfortunately I managed to wreck my EVGA 680i motherboard in the process. My next shot was the much simpler option of a board with an unpopulated table. I got a bit further this time - to the point where the OCUR test tool reported my BIOS was compliant but I screwed something else up and every time I restart the machine it tells me the BIOS settings are incorrect and I'd get some message about a missing security component or something when I tried going through VMC setup and, as I also have an "official" OCUR PC I haven't found the time to look any further in to it. It's great to see someone finally got through this.

On the PID thing, here's something you might appreciate...

For those of you with "official" cablecard systems you might remember that the FIRST time you set up your system (before you had to re-format your machine and re-install the OS the first time - I know we've all done it at least once...) you were not prompted to enter the digital cable activation key. That's because OEMs use the same, "bulk", digital cable PID on all systems. The key is pre-loaded in the registry for convenience so the user doesn't have to type it in. The key on the sticker is necessary in case the bulk PID is ever revoked or if, for some reason, the bulk key is not in the registry (i.e. a fresh OS install). You can find the digital cable PID in the registry here:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Media Center\Service\Content Security

"OCURPID"=""

If you've got an OEM system that's never been re-formatted you will notice the PID is not the same as the one on your sticker. That's your vendors bulk key. To take it a step further, I'm almost positive that bulk keys are not really tied to the vendor in any way and so, for example, I can use an HP bulk key on a Dell and vice-versa. In fact, I think ALL OEMs used the EXACT SAME key on at least the first batch of OCUR systems...

One other tip - if you are going to try to figure out how to add the OSFR table to a BIOS that does not have it; after blowing up my 680i my next plan (before I picked up a board with an un-populated table) was to try to mod a VMWare virtual machine BIOS - no worries about bricking a board that way. From what I can tell, you can mod a VMWare BIOS with the Phoenix BIOS editor so I'm pretty sure it would be possible...

Dan,

Thanks for all of the work and investigation.  This helps me immensely in my future planning and is exactly what I'm looking for.  As a lot of info is in this post and the relted ones, if I have time or anyone else does it may be benefcial to collate this all and make it accessible.

My scenario is the following:

I have a DCT setup courtesy of HP's atx offering.  I have since re-cased the HP into a fanless, silent system.  One minor qibble I have wit hthe current setup is sincehe BIO fr the HP motherboard is HP, there is no BIOS setting or jumper stting I have no way to DISABLE the no fan warning beep on bootup.  Which is fine if I was unmarried but with  wife and kids the disoncerting PC warning warble is definitely not WAF friendly.

If the motherboard switch works then I'll finally have complete control over my hardware and bios the same as a I had with my non-cablecard oringal MCE setup.  Besides what I already mentioned, there are many other little details about my setup, that ability to tailor things exacty  is very important to me: :)

thanks again for this work!

nvmarino:

  For those of you with "official" cablecard systems you might remember that the FIRST time you set up your system (before you had to re-format your machine and re-install the OS the first time - I know we've all done it at least once...) you were not prompted to enter the digital cable activation key. That's because OEMs use the same, "bulk", digital cable PID on all systems. The key is pre-loaded in the registry for convenience so the user doesn't have to type it in. The key on the sticker is necessary in case the bulk PID is ever revoked or if, for some reason, the bulk key is not in the registry (i.e. a fresh OS install). You can find the digital cable PID in the registry here: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Media Center\Service\Content Security "OCURPID"="" If you've got an OEM system that's never been re-formatted you will notice the PID is not the same as the one on your sticker. That's your vendors bulk key. To take it a step further, I'm almost positive that bulk keys are not really tied to the vendor in any way and so, for example, I can use an HP bulk key on a Dell and vice-versa. In fact, I think ALL OEMs used the EXACT SAME key on at least the first batch of OCUR systems... One other tip - if you are going to try to figure out how to add the OSFR table to a BIOS that does not have it; after blowing up my 680i my next plan (before I picked up a board with an un-populated table) was to try to mod a VMWare virtual machine BIOS - no worries about bricking a board that way. From what I can tell, you can mod a VMWare BIOS with the Phoenix BIOS editor so I'm pretty sure it would be possible...

Wow...what a great post.  I've been working with another user on the boards to find the Bulk keys and this confirms what we were researching.  I"m wondering what would happen if those bulk keys leaked?  Is this something MS would have to revoke?  Interesting.

I'll start doing some research on the VMWare BIOS.

Thanks Again.

nvmarino - Color me impressed. I've been trying to figure out the generic cable card PID for months now (well, off and on). Magical Jellybean never found it and I was in the middle of trying to analyze Process Monitor logs (and feeling overwhelmed)--I'm so happy that I don't have to do that anymore. It never even dawned on me to try just a simple registry search for the word *OCUR*. Is that how you found it? In any case, thanks a million for sharing it.

Ever since I got my XPS 420 last year and noticed that I never had to input the cable card product key I knew that there was a generic key lurking somewhere or some other means of bulk preactivation of the feature that could be exploited. Common sense told me that Dell didn't pay some worker to squint at my little product key sticker and enter those 25 characters. Coupled with my knowledge of the method MS uses for royalty OEMs to preactivate their OS installs I knew that some analogous method was in play here. 

As far as I can see, that is the end of OEM-only cable card systems. Unless ehshell  somehow verifies that the OS is also preactivated (but then that's also easy to work around) then so long as you get a motherboard that has tools available to hack its BIOS you have everything you need to get cable card working.

My only qualm is that I really wish we had this ATI DRM-loosening firmware update prior to these methods becoming available. Even as cable card is opening up to more PCs thanks to this, the DRM is still terribly draconian and limits the usefulness of this solution. I hope that this new information doesn't jeopardize the firmware update (not that it's anyone's fault if it does--information wants to be free).

Thanks again to DanITman and nvmarino for their work on this.

 

Glad I could help. As for how I figured this out - there is a document included with the Windows Vista OEM Pre-installation kit (vista OPK) called "OCUR Deployment Guidelines". All the info is spelled out clear as day in this doc. How does one get the Vista OPK you might ask? Simple - sign up with Microsoft as an OEM system builder here:

http://www.microsoft.com/oem/default.mspx

It's free and will give you access to the OPK.

Believe it or not I actually tried to go down the path of getting licensed to be able to ship Vista with Digital Cable support about two years ago. As the vast majority of information on the net about what this required was speculation I did the research on my own, and the start of this investigation was signing up as an OEM System Builder. I ran in to a brick wall when it became apparent you have to be a Microsoft Direct OEM (which I've come to realize I *think* means/requires Microsoft Gold Partner level) and yet every time I called Microsoft's sales and/or partner program, no one had I clue of what I was talking about when I asked exactly what was required to become a Microsoft Direct OEM and be able to license Windows Vista with Digital Cable support. I finally gave up.

If you are interested, I also wrote a post here on more details re: as much as I knew about what was actually required as there was so much confusion and mis-information about what this entails. It's the last post here by AVeNVy (that's me):

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20025256-Panasonic-HDDVR-with-Tru2way-guide-video~start=40

One other comment on this topic - this info should really piss people off in the DIY/small system builder crowd as once you understand the details of what's required for OCUR you quickly realize that there is zero risk of allowing DIYers to build their own cablecard PC's as there is exactly zero additional technology in an "OCURized" motherboard vs. a non-OCURized one. The certification requirement is strictly a paper requirement. So all the speculation about OEM cablecard PC's having some kind of additional security that protect the content is complete BS - all the security is in the ATI DCT and CableCard. The ONLY thing the certification achieves is locking DIYers and small system builders out of the market.

The tool the "leet hackers" use to "crack" Vista is called "VistaLoader-2.2.0" and/or "VistaLoader-2.1.2". It's bascially a hacked up version of the Linux GRUB tool that patches the ACPI tables in memory before loading the NT Boot Loader. So it seems dumping some research into GRUB would be the next logical step.

Some initial investigative research has revealed that the version they're using is Grub4Dos 0.4.3 available from here:

https://gna.org/projects/grub4dos/

Once someone figures out how to use GRUB to patch the ACPI tables, they should be able to add in the OCUR "certificate" (that string of hex) and have a "compliant" BIOS at runtime.