A few examples addressing the "SageTV's UI doesn't cut it" myth:

FanArt for Movies, Music and TV Shows
Custom Movie Page
iMovies and a newer version
nBlue Theme
CenterSage Theme
Sage Pro for SageMC
More Theme Screen-Shots In This Thread

And the great thing is, if you don't like the way the menu looks or works, you can customize it, move things around or add menu items where ever you want.

I, too, have been waiting for the DirecTV solution and actually just had DirecTV installed two weeks ago anticipating that it would come out.  However, after using DirecTV now in my house, I'm EXTREMELY happy with the setup I have now.  I am using the IR blasters that everyone moans about and I wasn't happy as I was installing them, but after using the setup for a couple of weeks now I can say that it works great.  I also installed the DirecTV2PC beta on that system so I can connect and get HD upstairs AND I integrated it into my media center UI so it's seemless and I can control everything with my remote.  I'm having a bit of trouble getting it working (I'm getting the can't connect to server error while trying to watch, it is still a beta..), but once I do all my issues will be solved.  The best thing is that I saved almost $50 a month off of what I was spending on Comcast and I have MORE than I had before.  

dravor:

cfaslave:

oon2ooo:

All love for SageTV and their support but this is just misleading. The interface, with plug-ins and all is still light-years behind. It needs an entirely new infrastructure. Hopefully this comes with version 7. And don't forget the HD-PVR is not a real solution:
a. It's a timebomb
b. It requires individual set-top boxes for each input since STBs output only one video signal via component
c. IR blasters combos with STB sucks.
d. Costly, costly and more costly. The whole implementation done right will cost you the same as a CableCard PC.

I miss SageTV and the options, customization and tinkering it offered. But until it actually has support from real content providers, it is a no go. Work arounds and hacks just aren't good enough. Save yourself the time, give up all this and invest in a new hobby. I, for one, learned to play the guitar. Just as satisfying and doesn't come with the social stigma. Bonus!

Uh seriously?  Please list out what about SageTV versus your favorite solution is "light years behind."  Seems to me you could easily compare the features and would come to a much different (and more accurate) conclusion.  And the support comment?  What do you mean by that?

a. timebomb?  You mean kind of like CableCard with switched digital?
b. I have one set-top box with one HD-PVR.  Add to that a HDHR for unencrypted digital and a few other tuners and get everything I need.
c. USB-UIRT works great with the HD-PVR and cablebox  a few seconds lag on channel changing about the same as with CableCard.  And many use firewire (or serial for Satellite) for channel changing anyway
d. I doubt there's much difference in cost in the short or long-run.

a.) Cablecard is only a timebomb on Cable systems, not FIOS :) And beyond that, didn't Comcast just switch channels off of SDV due to a FCC complaint? b.) This works great if you have only 1 HDTV. What about my other 3 HDTV's? With Verizon, to copy my Cable Card setup, I would need 2 HDPVR's $500, and then rent 2 HD boxes at $16 a month. So my rental cost per month would go from $6 , to $32 a month (2 HD boxes). So a year, I'm looking at $288 more per year in rentals.

I have multiple HDTVs in my house and yes, just that one HD-PVR and dual-tuner HDHR.  You know why that works on SageTV?  Because those tuners all work on my server PC and then I can watch LiveTV and recorded TV from any Softsled (ClientPC) or extender in my house no matter where.

cfaslave:

Uh seriously?  Please list out what about SageTV versus your favorite solution is "light years behind."  Seems to me you could easily compare the features and would come to a much different (and more accurate) conclusion.  And the support comment?  What do you mean by that?

a. timebomb?  You mean kind of like CableCard with switched digital?
b. I have one set-top box with one HD-PVR.  Add to that a HDHR for unencrypted digital and a few other tuners and get everything I need.
c. USB-UIRT works great with the HD-PVR and cablebox  a few seconds lag on channel changing about the same as with CableCard.  And many use firewire (or serial for Satellite) for channel changing anyway
d. I doubt there's much difference in cost in the short or long-run.

I'm all for defending what you believe in, but we aren't going to turn The Green Button into Sage vs. Media Center, Myth vs. Media Center, Beyond vs. Media Center, etc.  We have a forum for Media Center alternatives which is perfect for this kind of talk.  This thread, which is about DIRECTV, isn't.

A UI being "light years behind" (or ahead) is a subjective statement and it can stay at that.  In fact, the one thing most people fail to understand about comparing these applications is how subjective the overall use is.  You have one HD-PVR and QAM for the rest, great!  Sadly, that doesn't work for everyone so claiming Sage is the end all best solution doesn't really work if you need 4 HD-PVRs and 4 STBs to get the channels you are looking for.

Everyone is free to like what they want, but please do so in the correct places (like the Alteratives forum).

Something doesn't sit right. MS just made this big push at CEDIA for a custom installer group, there is no way a custom installer will not want to have HD content integrated into Media Center, I'm thinking it would kill their custom installer base.

Me thinks that they have abandoned the separate tuner, and my hope is that they are working on a software solution. DIRECTV2PC already allows you to watch DirecTV on a PC, here to hoping they are working on integrating it better with MC.

I have to think the MS has something in mind, but it would really be nice to hear from MS in wake of the announcement from DirecTV.

Chris - Moderator:

I'm all for defending what you believe in, but we aren't going to turn The Green Button into Sage vs. Media Center, Myth vs. Media Center, Beyond vs. Media Center, etc.  We have a forum for Media Center alternatives which is perfect for this kind of talk.  This thread, which is about DIRECTV, isn't.

A UI being "light years behind" (or ahead) is a subjective statement and it can stay at that.  In fact, the one thing most people fail to understand about comparing these applications is how subjective the overall use is.  You have one HD-PVR and QAM for the rest, great!  Sadly, that doesn't work for everyone so claiming Sage is the end all best solution doesn't really work if you need 4 HD-PVRs and 4 STBs to get the channels you are looking for.

Everyone is free to like what they want, but please do so in the correct places (like the Alteratives forum).

Sorry Chris.  Originally just responding to what I felt were invalid claims.  In conclusion I said the best options for HTPC with PVR functionality were:  SageTV AND Vista Media Center.  I am not and will not say that SageTV is the end-all best solution or that it is the best solution for everyone, just that it is a worthy competitor and when someone misleads about any of the HTPC options I tend to try to correct those points with my opinion.

That being said I agree - Nuf said about that though, back to our orignal programming however you get it ;)

So is DishTV a possiblity with VMC?  I've heard multiple people say its a possibility.

Honestly, this announcement is unfortunate but I really believe that it wasn't MS's or DTV's own fault. At least not wholly. It always comes down to money.

Who would stand to lose the most money here? MS has done their part by delivering the integration into MC for the HDPC-20 as seen in the Engadget photos. Ed Bott has verified a driver installed with a Windows 7 69xx build for this support. MS did their part. Was it in timely fashion? THAT may be debateable but not likely the reason. MS loses money by this not going forward but a significant amount? No.

DirecTV had the hardware developed and working. See above. DirecTV loses money by this not going into production and released to the public. I'm sure they would've sold it to the user then turn around and still charge a monthly lease (how does THAT work...still sticks in my craw).

Both MS and DTV had a fair amount of R&D into this but who's to say how much? It's hard to believe that it would be scrapped or shelved after 2+ years of developement unless they both felt they couldn't recover their investment such as their wasn't a big enough market for the product and/or they couldn't charge enough for the product/service to make it fiscally viable. I gotta believe they would've realized that sooner rather than later. This brings me to what I believe to be what is going on.

The content providers. The studios. The networks. The ad agencies.

THEY lose the most if it goes into production and is easily accessable to the average end user.

If the home user can easily get it into a PVR and save it in a readily available format, then who needs to purchase CSI Season 'xx' box set? DVD/BluRay movies? If you have HBO or the like, PVR it and you have it at your beck and call, not to mention pay per view or what. The ad agencies would stand the least to lose only because you can already pause/ff through live tv/hdtv. HD is where it's at and where it's going. The money minds saw the opportunity in HDCP after watching what Napster did to the recording industry back in the day. The industry learned its lesson well.

With HDCP hardware compliance, the chips (literally) are in place to protect content. The wheels were set in motion long ago for this MS/DTV project to fail. Too bad neither saw that soon enough to put the project to rest soon enough. My guess, and its only a guess, is that the delay over the past year or so was how to wrangle with the HDCP and restricting content use to a single PC (possibly to share on a home network). That means some sort of DRM again. We know how that ended up.

Bottom line is there will always be a way around, but I'm not that smart to do it (yet). 'They' will never make it easy. Never. Sure there are ways to do it now, but there are sacrifices either in SD vs. HD, UI eyecandy or whatever. Ten, twenty years from now, it will be commonplace and we'll wonder why didn't it happen sooner? Because someone had to figure out how to control it first and make the most money off it.

I seriously doubt this DirecTV device getting killed has anything to do with Microsoft directly at least.  I'd chalk it up to the economy and DirecTV's decreased interest in the project due to their projections of cost/benefit analysis.

WTF ? I didnt' see the post about Directv getting killed off for Media Center. As a long time user of Media Center, follower, dealer, supporter, this is really upsetting.

Can anyone from Microsoft confirm this ? I'd like to know 100% before selling my media center setup. I still have time to return it (about another 10 days)

Here we go...

some site:

According to a company spokesperson, "DIRECTV has suspended the development of the HDPC-20 tuner project that was designed to integrate DIRECTV service into Windows Media Center after assessing the impact of missing the August 2008 release of Windows Media Center update and considering timing of the next release.

"Both DIRECTV and Microsoft understand the desirability of offering consumers an all encompassing DIRECTV programming solution via Windows-based PCs. We are continuing to explore ways to integrate DIRECTV service with Windows-based PCs in the future.

"The HDPC-20 tuner that appears on the driver list of a pre-Beta build of Windows 7 is an artifact that was listed prior to the decision to suspend the tuner project. As our plans progress toward a Windows Media Center-compatible product, we will make an announcement at the appropriate time."

Maybe it's been trashed for a new product ?

Or maybe this is the reason ?

http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/03/hell-freezes-over-new-directv-hd-tivo-on-the-way/

DRM is the real issue. Without it we could stream DVD, blue ray and  record any channel that we purchased, but instead big brother has to tell us how we can enjoy content. Media Center is dead no UI can mask the fact you can't record Premium HD or stream DVD's. It was a nice dream shattered by DRM.

I've been a loyal Media Center user for years and have dumped a ton of money into my habit. I have justified this expensive alternative by believing that a Directv solution was on the way. I was an NFL ticket subscriber for years until they wanted to charge me an additional $99 a season for HD channels that should be included when upgrading their system. They called me last week with another rate change for HD content even though I already pay for the HD receiver and HD package. This is absolutely the last straw. I'm sick of waiting around for Microsoft and DirecTv to come up with new ways to extract money from me while delivering sub-standard products.

BTW,
Being a Minnesotan and an avid sports fan your analogy is on point but it can apply to all of our teams.

some site:

According to a company spokesperson, "DIRECTV has suspended the development of the HDPC-20 tuner project that was designed to integrate DIRECTV service into Windows Media Center after assessing the impact of missing the August 2008 release of Windows Media Center update and considering timing of the next release.

"Both DIRECTV and Microsoft understand the desirability of offering consumers an all encompassing DIRECTV programming solution via Windows-based PCs. We are continuing to explore ways to integrate DIRECTV service with Windows-based PCs in the future.

"The HDPC-20 tuner that appears on the driver list of a pre-Beta build of Windows 7 is an artifact that was listed prior to the decision to suspend the tuner project. As our plans progress toward a Windows Media Center-compatible product, we will make an announcement at the appropriate time."

It sounds to me like this is both DTV and MS's fault, and mostly the content providers.
First, it is DTVs fault for underestimating the impact that the HDPC-20 would have. I moved over to DTV in anticipation of this device. I am sure many other people would do the same. DTV also should have been planning much sooner to make the August 2008 release.

Second, this is MS's fault also because of their long time in between Media Center updates. The fact that the ehome team is on the same schedule as OS releases is just ridiculous. Media Center technologies change much faster than the OS.

As somebody else said "its all about the money". They know there is a market out there (myself included) that will buy the new version of the OS just to get the new media center. On one hand I understand that this is an added feature built into the OS and we are only paying for it in a round about way (needing to by premium). On the other hand, I think they could have one hell of a product if they broke ehome away from the OS and sold it as a downloadable add-on. People are willing to pay for SageTV, why not allow people to pay for Media Center? Oh yeah, because then we would all just by the standard edition and not have to buy Premium or Ultimate.

I think a lot of the delay for this is because they needed to make sure all the security was in place because the content providers didn't want people to save their "premium" content. I think that DTV didn't want to make consumers do the same thing that you have to do to get a CableCard computer so they had many more hoops to jump through. As everybody said, the pieces were are all there, look at Netflix on the new Xbox Experience. If you look at streaming movies there are some movies that cannot be streamed to the XBOX, Sony movies. Honestly WTF is the difference between a Roku box and an XBOX? I don't know either but Netflix had to get new licensing to be able to stream it to the XBOX.

What this all comes down to is I think the content providers are the reason for all of this, not MS and not DTV for the most part. Remember the content providers don't like DVRs because then they can't get you to their sites to watch shows that you missed and get the revenue from advertisements there.

FireDog7881:

It sounds to me like this is both DTV and MS's fault, and mostly the content providers. First, it is DTVs fault for underestimating the impact that the HDPC-20 would have. I moved over to DTV in anticipation of this device. I am sure many other people would do the same. DTV also should have been planning much sooner to make the August 2008 release.

Yea but...

some site:

According to a company spokesperson, "DIRECTV has suspended the development of the HDPC-20 tuner project that was designed to integrate DIRECTV service into Windows Media Center after assessing the impact of missing the August 2008 release of Windows Media Center update and considering timing of the next release.

This pretty much says it's Microsoft's fault for them pulling out. From what is read on this site, H.264 was in the TV pack (as you can see people hacking the old driver from the beta) and yanked out in the later builds, this was needed for Directv support.

Then it's the release schedule for Media Center, ehome sticks to the OS release timeline, it looks like that would not work with Media Center.

On another note, it does say it's been suspended, not canceled or ended. It could be possable it's being "paused" and still scheduled for Windows 7.

From what I have been reading at DBS sites, a lot of people are calling about it, every day. By telling the world tha it's been suspended, it will stop the calls till the press statement comes out right at Windows 7 release timeline. Keep in mind the $$ for people to man phones just to answer this question over and over. If they are getting that many calls about it, it would be a dumb thing for them to cancel it and it shows interest.

It's also possable the HTPC-20 had a lot of bugs, that they could not overcome, so insted of releasing a buggy product, they pulled out till a redesign is done....

I don't forsee that but, I guess it's possable.

You never know...

All I know, if this product is released and works, I'll sign a 2 year contract for Directv today...

Of course I would like to see a statement from Microsoft on this but, we won't see this.

Wow, that pretty much does it for me then. Unbelievable...

Sad, very sad.

Guess I'll tell my DirecTV clients "Just kidding" and move on to things that actually work. Wait, there isn't anything yet, is there.

I looked at the component video input cards today, the high-end video production models, but they land everything they receive on the harddrive at 4:4:4 uncompressed, or 116 mbps, using up 5 gig of space per minute of video. Not really gonna work...

I'm calling DirecTV and asking to be removed from their mailing list and email list today. I want them to know I'm dissatisfied! I'll see M$ at CES next month and express my unhappiness. So far as the MPAA, our Congressmen that eat out of their hands, the FCC and anyone else that stands in the way of video redistribution around the house, they can all go to that hot firey place down below.