My OEM went bust early this year so I'm really looking forward to a public release once the other OEMs have had a chance to play with this. I for one have faith in MS that this is what they intend to do. Please dont prove me wrong :-)

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Vista Premium SP1 TV Pack 2008, Athlon 64x2 4200+AM2, 2GB DDR2 RAM, SATAII WDC WD25 7200rpm 250GB, MSI K9NGM2 MS-7252v1.1, SONY DW-Q78A DVD-RW Drive, Hauppauge NOVA-T 500 DVB-T 99101_LF_revD8B5 & Media Centre Remote Control

Aitor Ibarra:

If it weren't for evidence to the contrary, I would speculate/hope....

Maybe Fiji has split into two upgrades:

1. The OEM only upgrade is the H264 stuff. Maybe the beta test found lots of problems with some hardware / drivers, so MS want this part to only be provided by OEMs who are going to build, test, and sell a fully working system, rather than put it out to general users. By making it OEM only, MS puts the support responsiblity onto the OEMs shoulders. If it was a normal update/SP, end users would be entitled to MS support (this happened with Vista SP1 - if you had pre SP1 Vista OEM, applying the SP entitles you to support from MS rather than the OEM).
2. The rest of Fiji (er... Teletext/MHEG for DVB-T, better album art*, more tuners) isn't so contentious, so can go out on Windows Update for everybody.

*just hoping!

 

Maybe it will be a Vista Ultimate Edition, Ultimate Extra!  LOLOLOLOLOLOL  Sorry fellas, but after years and years and years of extreme disappointment with every new "release" of MCE from M$ I just had to write something that would make me laugh.  This is a complete joke and goes lock-step with every move they've made since MCE 2005 Fruit Roll-up 2.  Long waits, little information... pitiful new features and HUMUNGUS disappointment by all core enthusiasts.  When are we going to learn and stop placating ourselves by saying "they must have pushed it off until the next release"?

 

I hope they do release it to more than just OEM but I am pretty sure at this point that only a few suckers will remain at that point to accept it.  The rest of us will have moved on to greener HTPC pastures......  Sad...truly sad

hack-o-holic

I think one of the key differences here between MCE2005 and Vista MCE (and that leads me to believe it will not be OEM) is that the default installed base of potential MCE users is exponentially larger than with MCE2005. With MCE2005, most of the installs were through an OEM manufacturer. Sure, you could buy it yourself (only MCE2005, not MCE2004) but that was for a purpose built MCE PC.

With Vista, anybody that has Vista Home Premium or Vista Ultimate is a potential consumer of this upgrade. For Microsoft to arbitrarily change strategy and offer this functionality to OEM only would be confusing at best. I cannot imagine that they would build in a features like MCE into every retail and OEM version of Home Premium and Ultimate and then turn around and throw all of those potential users under the proverbial bus.

I guess time will tell. I sure hope that the $250 I spent on a retail Vista Ultimate will get me ATSC subchannel support!!!!!!

Steinway

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AMD Athlon 6400+ BE (watercooled)
Nvidia 8600GTS
Hauppauge HVR-1600
Razer Barracuda AC-1
2GB DDR2
1TB HDD
Vista Ultimate W/ TV Pack

I'm surprised that some companies still believe that the best form of communication is no communication...

I dunno.  I don't think that MSFT is going to let current Home Premium or Ultimate users get this without re-buying an entire OS or computer.

Take these somewhat cryptic messages from Jeff Tucker into consideration (from this thread).

JeffTucker - MSFT:

Again, in all future releases [missing ATSC subchannel EPG data] is resolved, as we now have a data provider that gives us FULL ATSC listings and lineups.  ...  While that doesn't help existing Vista users, it at least illustrates the fact that we are continuing to invest in ATSC support...

ahelseth:

Future releases as in Windows 7 or future releases of the Media Center application? 

JeffTucker - MSFT:

All future releases of the Media Center application from now on... not just those tied to a Windows release.  And yes we will also have improved support for DVB, QAM, etc.  That is about all I can say at the moment.

...so, Fiji is the next release of Media Center; it isn't necessarily tied to Windows 7; and it won't help existing Vista users.  That last point is key in my mind.

this and that suggest that fiji will have qam support no? sorry if this was already posted but I found these and thought i must share....

mistake

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-Dave

MCP, MCSA, MCSE 2003
Windows Vista Connected Exp:Home Theater for Technologists
Windows Vista Connected Exp:Home Theater for Sales professionals

Home theater specialist (10+ years)

Steinway:

With Vista, anybody that has Vista Home Premium or Vista Ultimate is a potential consumer of this upgrade. For Microsoft to arbitrarily change strategy and offer this functionality to OEM only would be confusing at best.

If it is only released to OEMs then MS will have made the point that honestly buying software is not rewarding at all.
Just try reconciling this with "Windows Genuine Advantage".
I am sure illegal users of Vista will continue to find it easy to upgrade.
By restricting this upgrade to OEM's Microsoft would be really telling users there is no benefit in buying legitimate software.

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PAL territory, using analogue cable Hauppauge PVR-350 and Hauppauge PVR-250, living in Belgium, Europe
http://www.extrabuttons.net

mrphil:

dgaust:

But rest assured, if it is to be released OEM only, there will be some harsh criticism. Hopefully it won't be personal (it won't be from me) but it would be the biggest mistake MS have made in a long long time.

A bigger mistake than not putting V1 extender support in Vista, forcing people to buy new hardware?
A bigger mistake than making the XP 2005 upgrade OEM only, forcing 2004 users to pay again?

Don't know what's worse than the V1 and V2 extender thing, Maybe to need a OEM PC to use cable cards? I built a new machine (a while ago) getting ready for cable cards only to find out I would have to dump it to even use them....So, guess who's still upset here ?

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-Dave

MCP, MCSA, MCSE 2003
Windows Vista Connected Exp:Home Theater for Technologists
Windows Vista Connected Exp:Home Theater for Sales professionals

Home theater specialist (10+ years)

I guess, we just have to hope that MS feel sorry for the lack of updates to their software, and release it to the general public - I know that the rumoured changes provided would be gladly accepted here.

Unfortunately I have no plans to buy an overpriced pc just to get the update...

however I ain't gonna hold my breath waiting for it!  Wonder if Sage supports my hardware...

Tony

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AMD64X2 6000+ | 3Gb Ram | 750Gb Maxtor SATA TV | 200Gb Samsung Spinpoint for Vista | ASUS M3N 78 PRO | FloppyDTV + Dragon CAM | Pinnacle 7010ix | XFX 8600GT Silent Video Card | LG Blu-ray/HD DVD Drive | Xbox 360 | Arcsoft Total Theatre

JeffTucker – MSFT:

I was also a little surprised at being personally called out for not posting a response (along with Microsoft in general) to a post that wasn't even one day old. 

Why does this surprise?  While I feel the use of profanity is completely uncalled for the disappointment is due to the lack of communication for a product that has already been released.  This is a failure on your part.  You’ve obviously done enough research on tgb to feel it warranted being purchased, did you neglect to notice hundreds of posts concerning “Fiji”?  How many other products are released without communications?

 

Charlie Owen:

 

You might be surprised at how much we listen, and how much this community influences the product. If were weren't interested in listening we wouldn't have made this acquisition -- I believe it's our commitment to staying in touch with our customers which led us to acquire TGB.com.

 

 

I happen to read the above post by Charlie Owen.  Does anyone else find it humorous?

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.:: Vista Ultimate x64 :: Antec Fusion :: Corsair HX520w :: ASUS P5E-VM :: Core2 Duo E8400 3.0Ghz :: 4GB RAM :: 128GB SSD System\Apps :: 1TB\5TB Data :: LG GGC-H20L BD/HD DVD :: HDHomeRun x2 ::.

JeffTucker – MSFT:

You'll have to wait for more official details, but I can assure you... do NOT read "OEM" to mean "US Only".  The international support in this release is one of the main reasons it exists.

Hi Again Jeff. Hope your day is going well (though you're probably not even at work saying its only 7:30 there). I have to say that this statement really worries me. Though I am glad to hear that for my International friends that they won't be excluded, the "OEM" label really bothers me. I have about $500 worth of vista installs (one Home premium and one Ultimate) that were purchased by me and did not come with my machines. So what I and I'm sure a lot of others are wondering is:

Does OEM exclude DIYers and Upgraders who didn't get their copies from an OEM?

If so, I think you just alienated a lot of users. Or perhaps MS has decided to split this version of MC out to a standalone install. In which case I think MS would be best served to offer this as an option to purchase without having to buy a whole new copy of Windows (Its hard to justify another $500 just to update MC). I''m only grasping at straws here, but when you are so secret about what is happening, you have to expect this behavior from your user base.

I also think that waiting 1.5 months to talk about a release that was "officially" released on Wednesday is a very bad decision. Perhaps the KB articles weren't supposed to be released which would clear up a lot.

Well, I hope your day goes smoothly. Tell Bill I said hi and don't let the MS bashing get to you too much (which I'm sure you don't).

I think i stopped laughing a few streets back.

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Always willing to help.

Didn't I tell all of you that Microsoft owning The Green Button does not give you an all access pass to unreleased info?  Just because their is a thread about it doesn't mean Microsoft is going to spill all of the information.

I'll say on thing, there is a lot of incorrect information going around and I'm personally very disappointed at all of the people leaking information, be it right or wrong.

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Chris Lanier
The Green Button Forum Moderator

With all the info (rumors) flying around this topic it is very easy to be very concerned about VMCs future. Yes releasing Fiji to OEM only would be a nasty slap in the face to MS existing customers and VMC enthusiasts.

I myself seemingly just got screwed Ive built my own systems from Day 1 but due to a $400 coupon, free memory upgrade, free shipping, and my heavy desire for HD in VMC I just bought an HP 9300 with DCT (arrives tomorrow). Now if HP has the TV Pack now then sure their new systems will probably have it, but mine wont, and just like any other device software update (think cell phone ROMs here) if the OEM sees it as a hassle or if they cant make any money on it (which is usually the case) then they JUST WONT OFFER IT.

Thats a huge risk and high probability that most existing customers probably wont get the TV Pack update from their OEM unless they buy a new machine heres CableCard all over again. Now HP is huge so if any OEM is going to offer the update HP should be among them. So Im covered right? But who says a re-install wont screw up the Digital Cable Certification on my machine? We all know how finicky that can be. Its the only reason I bought an OEM system.

Despite all this I still feel I have reason to be optimistic. I really dont think MS would release the update to OEMs this way just to be mean there must be a solid reason. Im hoping its because the Fiji package (and possibly complementary updates not far behind) are huge and include the big updates we all hope it will. If its OEM because they need a new core architecture to support H.264 and DirecTV and the other things weve been waiting for then maybe itll be worth it. As an enthusiast and supporter I would go through a lot of trouble and deal with an OEM only IF. IF they gave us what weve been waiting for.

The 2 months of waiting until CEDIA does suck, but I assume thats to give the OEMs time to chew on the TV Pack and get it ready to be shipped with their new machines the day it is officially announced at CEDIA.