Sure they would, it has nothing to do with Xbox or HD DVD.  Content owners could care less about it, the fact is there is now a consumer grade piece of hardware (eg. cheap) that allows Component input.  Both HD DVD and Blu-ray have AACS, both do it the same way (it's on a per disc basis).  Content owners could really care less about 300,000 Xbox 360 HD DVD owners, and Microsoft's influence doesn't go near that far.

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Chris Lanier
The Green Button Forum Moderator

Two things:

I don't want to record HD-DVD and/or Blu-ray.  I can play those native on my Media Center with an internal reader and output over DVI/HDMI to my TV if required.  I want this to record HD off my cable box and I really can't wait for it to come work with Windows Media Center.  I really hope that MS is on the ball with this one and gets support for it soon or the whole Media Center project might be destined for disaster.  I already find it a royal pain in the butt that I have to switch to my cable box to watch HD as it (no cable card systems in Canada).  I have rented the cable company's HD-PVR and found it very lacking compared to Media Center, and I don't want to have to junk my HTPC and get the crappy box just because MS won't support HD.

Second, if they decide to cut the component to 480p this year I think they will anger too many people.  Even with Blu-ray winning the HD battle there are still a miniscule amount of players out there, and there are still a lot of HDTVs out there with either no HDMI or no HDCP and I think this might cause a bit of a problem.  I think for now they need to concentrate on getting more players out there and not give consumers any worry about whether or not it will work with their TV.

I wish someone in government would just take a look at this whole HDCP/DRM crap and look at it from a consumer standpoint.  I think everyone agrees that the studios deserve the copyright on their product but if it means that legit consumers are getting shafted by draconian protectionism then something has gone horribly wrong.  With the current system of government though I can't see this happening any time soon.

Bump - any word from Microsoft on this?  The hardware is now available for purchase and I would like to add it to my HTPC as soon as possible without having to ditch Media Center to do it.

I don't expect to hear anything official from Microsoft on this at all.

Hauppauge on the other hand has confirmed to me (and others) that they will have Vista Media Center support for the HD-PVR device.

Although I think they were being a little too optimistic, I was actually told by Hauppauge that by the time the HD-PVR is readily available that Vista Media Center will be supported by it (of course we don't know when the HD-PVR will actually be readily available...).

Regardless of the exact date; based on Hauppauge's answer it shouldn't be too long before it is supported.

Note that I didn't specifically ask about MCE2005 support and to be honest I doubt MCE2005 will ever support the Hauppauge HD-PVR.

Another thing to note:  I kept reading on the various forums (including avsforum) that Vista Media Center would never support the HD-PVR so I actually both called and e-mailed Hauppauge yet again to double/triple check.  I was answered once again that VMC would be supported.

I haven't heard of anyone talking to Hauppauge and being told there was no support coming so I suspect all of the rumors of no support are just that - rumors.

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STB w/R5000HD USB I/O, Gigabyte GA-P35-DS4, Quad Q6600, 4.0 GB RAM, ATI HD 3870 512MB, Ultra XVS 600W PSU, 3x SATA 500GB, 2x SATA 300GB, LG GGC-H20L, PVR-250, Toshiba 51H83 (51" HDTV), Yamaha RX-V2400 Amp, 5x Energy Speakers, SVS Sub, Harmony 880 Remote

HT slider,

While I do believe support will come eventually. Of course hauppauge is going to say "yes" people that answer their phones and emails don't have a clue. So I would take what they say with a grain of salt.

Support is coming with the next update to media center everyone knows this, but don't think for a second microsoft won't do it without copyright and possibly DRM.

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Dell xps420 w/ dual ATI cable cards
Hdhomerun for QAM
Panasonic 50" Plasma fed by xbox 360
Panasonic 42" plama fed by xbox 360
3TB in storage and counting

PLUCKYHD:

HT slider,

While I do believe support will come eventually. Of course hauppauge is going to say "yes" people that answer their phones and emails don't have a clue. So I would take what they say with a grain of salt.

Support is coming with the next update to media center everyone knows this, but don't think for a second microsoft won't do it without copyright and possibly DRM.

Because of all of the negative rumors I both asked for a manager and then had them escalate my call to their next tier tech support.  I was assured that Media Center would be supported in Vista by the HD-PVR and it would be supported soon.

Has anyone been told there is even a possibility that Hauppauge won't support VMC with the HD-PVR?  Where is this information coming from?

As far as I'm concerned Hauppauge should be in a much better position to specify if their hardware will work with VMC than the rumors floating around the net.  For all we know they might already be working with a beta of fuji and may already even have it working.

There is always the possibility that something could go wrong, but my experience with Hauppauge has always been solid as far as devices doing what they say it will.

Realistically if this device doesn't work with Vista Media Center, Media Center will be all but dead as far as Canada is concerned.  Absolutely no-one is going to purchase an expensive Media Center without HD support and this is the one and only method Canadians can look forward to HD with Media Center.  From that perspective I can't see why Microsoft would do anything to block or break functionality of the Hauppauge HD-PVR.  This device will open the market to the sale of Media Center (VMC) within Canada.

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STB w/R5000HD USB I/O, Gigabyte GA-P35-DS4, Quad Q6600, 4.0 GB RAM, ATI HD 3870 512MB, Ultra XVS 600W PSU, 3x SATA 500GB, 2x SATA 300GB, LG GGC-H20L, PVR-250, Toshiba 51H83 (51" HDTV), Yamaha RX-V2400 Amp, 5x Energy Speakers, SVS Sub, Harmony 880 Remote

As many have stated it will work with the next update to vista wether it be one or 3 months before we see that update is yet to be seen.

They will not block or break the hd-pvr but they will obey copyright protection as they do with all current tuners and i wouldn't be suprised to see heavy drm added by microsoft as with the cable card.

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Dell xps420 w/ dual ATI cable cards
Hdhomerun for QAM
Panasonic 50" Plasma fed by xbox 360
Panasonic 42" plama fed by xbox 360
3TB in storage and counting

Let's hope Fuji adds not only H.264 support for the HD-PVR but fixes the CGMS-A issue in Canada (http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/thread/176207.aspx) as well.  If not, then there won't be much point in adding an HD-PVR to a Canadian system if 80% of the recordings are canceled because of the CGMS-A flag.

Plus, you have to deal with cable providers pushing out new code to their STBs that respect the digital DRM flags and downgrade or turn-off the component outputs of the STB for protected content.

WRK

kingwr:

Let's hope Fuji adds not only H.264 support for the HD-PVR but fixes the CGMS-A issue in Canada (http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/thread/176207.aspx) as well.  If not, then there won't be much point in adding an HD-PVR to a Canadian system if 80% of the recordings are canceled because of the CGMS-A flag.

Plus, you have to deal with cable providers pushing out new code to their STBs that respect the digital DRM flags and downgrade or turn-off the component outputs of the STB for protected content.

WRK

Have you or has anyone else heard anything official stating that providers will be turning off or downgrading the component outputs of their HD STBs?

I keep reading this on the forums, but unless there are already contracts in place that force providers to do this, I simply can't see any of them doing it voluntarily.

My STB for example only has component output for HD.  There is no DVI or HDMI output nor any HDCP protection.  There are also many HDTVs that only have component input for HD and even more that are not HDCP compliant with their digital inputs.

If providers were to suddenly disable HD for everyone without both HDCP compliant STBs and HDCP compliant HDTVs, there would be enormous backlash.  This could easily include lawsuits aimed at both providers and HDTV manufacturers.  I don't see providers wanting to open this can of worms so I expect STBs, especially in Canada, will continue to output HD through component out for all existing installations.

Blue-ray and HD-DVD on the other hand could quite easily start downgrading component output, but there are already contracts in place requiring this capability (part of the HD-DVD and Blue-ray spec) and all consumers have been warned (in their owners manuals) that analog component output may not be able to support full HD quality with certain movies.

Nothing like this exists for cable/satellite providers and existing STBs.

As far as CGMS-A goes, I too hope fuji will fix the problem for us Canadians.  I have heard a rumor that current STBs do not have the ability of generating CGMS-A on component HD output.  If that is true, the HD-PVR might actually be a work around those of us who are unable to record our SD content due to CGMS-A glitches (since we don't have CGMS-A here, anytime CGMS-A is present in s-video from our STB is a "glitch" or error as far as I'm concerned).

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STB w/R5000HD USB I/O, Gigabyte GA-P35-DS4, Quad Q6600, 4.0 GB RAM, ATI HD 3870 512MB, Ultra XVS 600W PSU, 3x SATA 500GB, 2x SATA 300GB, LG GGC-H20L, PVR-250, Toshiba 51H83 (51" HDTV), Yamaha RX-V2400 Amp, 5x Energy Speakers, SVS Sub, Harmony 880 Remote

I am excited to hear that this will be supported in the near future.  As was said before this is the only real option for HD in VMC for Canada, so I really want to get a couple of these soon.

I don't see my cable provider turning off the component outputs on my HD STB.  When it first arrived I was all set for it with the HDMI cable already plugged into my TV and the installer told me that the HDMI is not supported by them, but it does work.  With that kind of attitude I don't think they are going to just switch off the component output when that is how they recommended everyone hook up the STB.

Also I don't really care if the recorded TV gets DRM.  I would find it annoying but really I just want to play it back on my VMC or extenders anyway so it would not be a deal breaker for me.  I am not sure if they will do that however since the source is analog to begin with.

I agree that it doesn't make sense for an STB to have the option to downgrade the component out if it doesn't have an HDCP complian alternative.  The only box that I have seen information on regarding this capability is DirecTV's HR20, which supposedly will do this in response to the proper digital copyright flags.

As far as no CGMS-A in component output, it is not the STB that "generates" the CGMS-A.  It is embeded in the analog video signal (thus the A) so its either there or it is not.  A high-def signal will not have the CGMS-A flag (its not encoded into the digital stream), however any analog broadcasts of NTSC video will have the CGMS-A signal embedded and will show up on your output, whether its composite, S-Video, or component.

WRK

kingwr:

As far as no CGMS-A in component output, it is not the STB that "generates" the CGMS-A.  It is embeded in the analog video signal (thus the A) so its either there or it is not.  A high-def signal will not have the CGMS-A flag (its not encoded into the digital stream), however any analog broadcasts of NTSC video will have the CGMS-A signal embedded and will show up on your output, whether its composite, S-Video, or component.

WRK

From what I've read mpeg-2 does not include the full set of NTSC timing signals, nor does the primary mpeg-2 video stream include "off-screen" video, such as line 21 (where CGMS-A resides).

My understanding is the STB, after decompressing the mpeg-2, builds the analog video to NTSC standards (including horizontal and vertical video timing signals) and adds line 21 data.

In other words, the STB does indeed actually add CGMS-A into the video, just like it adds closed captioning and NTSC video timing signals.  CGMS-A doesn't simply "appear" in the video automatically when the mpeg-2 is decompressed.

I expect the STB does exactly the same thing for HD.

Personally I would have thought that HD-STBs would be designed to recreate a full analog 720p or 1080i signal, including line 24 (720p) and line 19 (1080i) data streams, but someone fairly knowledgeable wrt video transmission mentioned to me that he understood that CGMS-A was not currently being output from STBs when 720p and 1080i was output using component.  I wouldn't say this is absolutely guaranteed, but at least it gives me a little hope that we won't end up with crippled, non-functional Media Center's in Canada when we pick up our Hauppauge HD-PVRs.

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STB w/R5000HD USB I/O, Gigabyte GA-P35-DS4, Quad Q6600, 4.0 GB RAM, ATI HD 3870 512MB, Ultra XVS 600W PSU, 3x SATA 500GB, 2x SATA 300GB, LG GGC-H20L, PVR-250, Toshiba 51H83 (51" HDTV), Yamaha RX-V2400 Amp, 5x Energy Speakers, SVS Sub, Harmony 880 Remote

The Hauppauge page says “Shipping will start May 1, 2008”. So is the Hauppauge HD PVR model # 01212 shipping now or what? Any one have one?

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Q6600 | Gigabyte GA-P35C-DS3R | Corsair XMS2 DDR2 2x1GB + OCZ DDR2 2x512MB | eVGA 8800GT | 2x 650GB HDD | LG GGW-H20L | 2x AVerTV Combo PCIe | Coolermaster 650 Extreme SLI PSU | XBox 360 | XBox 360 HD DVD Drive | Vista Home Premium | WHS | Hauppauge HD PVR

Hey you can buy it now..

http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hdpvr.html


Anyone try it yet?