Just Google "DRM Reset".  It is a Napster tool and works fine in Vista. 

---

_________________________________________
Vista Ult x86 | ASUS M2N-SLI Del | AMD 64 X2 5200+ | 4gb RAM + 4gb RB | MSI 8600GT | 3x HVR1800 | LC13-S | JVC 56" | PD 8.0 | FFDShow | 180.24 | VGP-XL1B | Harmony880 |80,750,750gb | WHS | FIOS

austinite:

The shows he's recording are not HD shows. Is the "copy-never" flag in analog broadcasts as well? What's to stop broadcasters from disabling all DVRs by just putting this flag on every broadcast?

It can be. CGMS-A provides for these flags. HBO uses these to prevent people from dupeing movies (they use copy-once) and cable oeprators use copy-never on PPV and on-demand content.

---

Ian Kennedy - eHome TV Playback Test Lead
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Box:P5B-E,8600GT,E6600,2GB,Seasonic PSU.Zalman HD160. 1x WD SE16 1TB, 1x OCZ 32GB SSD. 2x OCUR /w CableCard.

JasonT:

I think the following page answers your question About the dvr-ms File Format http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms778831.aspx --

Another educational question
My theory is that the DRM in Windows Vista/XP works as follows.

Media center checks for copy protection flags weather its from an analog stream or digital. It then passes this flag with an unencrypted video stream to the stream buffer engine which, in turn, starts producing a dvr-ms file(or stream buffer for mce to watch from) muxed with whatever flag specified (copy once, copy never. etc).  If media center sees this "copy never" flag it hauls the stream buffer and stops playback/creation of the buffer.

Am I right to assume that its the stream buffer engine that actually places the drm bits into the stream?  I have dug into the sbe.dll file  had found many references to drm and flags.  I am looking to debug erroneous flags from being detected and allow proper flags to still be detected.

CGMS/A and the ATSC boradcast flag are two different, but similar things giverend by different rules.

In my experience trying to attribute logic to these things is futile.

In the real world the cable operators do not insert any VBI data, which is where CGMS/A lives. It is always the content originator, such as HBO.

I am not versed in the legaleese that goverens the why/when of honoring the CGMS/A bits.  I do know that my Toshiba RDX2 DVD recorder does honor the bits too. Recently when we had a a spate of apparantly bogus CGMS/A hits on Bravo I was able to verify that the bits were indeed there by trying to record the same stream on the Toshiba unit and failing. Totaly different hardware, same results.

 

 

---

Ian Kennedy - eHome TV Playback Test Lead
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Box:P5B-E,8600GT,E6600,2GB,Seasonic PSU.Zalman HD160. 1x WD SE16 1TB, 1x OCZ 32GB SSD. 2x OCUR /w CableCard.

scuffs:

Sima CT-2

Only if you're slaving from a set top box.

But a proper TBC would be better. The DataVideo 4:2:2 digital TBC is very effective at scubbing any VBI goobers from what you feed through it. You will lose CC data as well.

---

Ian Kennedy - eHome TV Playback Test Lead
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Box:P5B-E,8600GT,E6600,2GB,Seasonic PSU.Zalman HD160. 1x WD SE16 1TB, 1x OCZ 32GB SSD. 2x OCUR /w CableCard.

RandyG:

JessZahn:

You know, as much as I hate bugs in our product, I think I hate this more.

Folks from my team are running a test now to see if we can capture the same thing you did.

YUCK!!!

Serious?  You just became one of my favorite gals ;-)

How do you capture it in Windows?  I can build a graph with VBI Scope easy enough to view Line 21 data, but don't know of any way to capture the VBI pin output to a file.   If you can point me to a directshow filter that does that, I can do some captures for you , if you like.

Here's a still shot with VBI-Scope:
http://members.shaw.ca/randyg/DRM/Line21_VBIscope.JPG

(although this was was more fun:)
http://members.shaw.ca/randyg/DRM/P2100005.JPG

 

Have you tried hooking the VBI data pin to something like the asyc dump filter? If you don't have it I can send it to you. I'm just guessing here, as I rarely party on that side of the SBE. Theere be dragons there.

---

Ian Kennedy - eHome TV Playback Test Lead
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Box:P5B-E,8600GT,E6600,2GB,Seasonic PSU.Zalman HD160. 1x WD SE16 1TB, 1x OCZ 32GB SSD. 2x OCUR /w CableCard.

pdamian:

What can I do to defeat this wrongful DRM? 

Purchase a DataVideo 4:2:2 TBC

http://www.datavideo.us/products/tbc_1000_main_page.htm

Place it between your STB and MC. Done.

Sima makes cheaper devices that do the same thing.

Then let your cable operator or service provider know how much you are displeased with them.

---

Ian Kennedy - eHome TV Playback Test Lead
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Box:P5B-E,8600GT,E6600,2GB,Seasonic PSU.Zalman HD160. 1x WD SE16 1TB, 1x OCZ 32GB SSD. 2x OCUR /w CableCard.

iank:

In the real world the cable operators do not insert any VBI data, which is where CGMS/A lives. It is always the content originator, such as HBO.

 

that can't be 100% true, or everyone would be complaining that MCE wouldn't record certain shows, yet it's only people on certain carriers that are experiencing the issue

(ie, for shitz and gigglez I've subscribed to Shaw for a month, and hooked up a HTPC to shaw on 1 tv, and a 2nd HTPC to SaskTel on another TV.   when attempting to record the same show, on the same channel, the shaw recording fails, while the sasktel recording works just fine)

Tikker:

iank:

In the real world the cable operators do not insert any VBI data, which is where CGMS/A lives. It is always the content originator, such as HBO.

 

that can't be 100% true, or everyone would be complaining that MCE wouldn't record certain shows, yet it's only people on certain carriers that are experiencing the issue

(ie, for shitz and gigglez I've subscribed to Shaw for a month, and hooked up a HTPC to shaw on 1 tv, and a 2nd HTPC to SaskTel on another TV.   when attempting to record the same show, on the same channel, the shaw recording fails, while the sasktel recording works just fine)

No, it's not true.  Shaw (and Rogers now) adds it.  They licenced CGMS-A from Macrovision, supposedly for PPV and VOD.  Now it's on 1/2 the shows.  You can Google for "CGMS-A Macrovision Shaw" and see the financial statements detailing it even.

By the way, most of the digital channels are the problem ones with "copy never" on them.  These channels travel to the cable box digitally through an internal modem inside the cable box.   The content provider (like HBO) can't ADD cgms-a to the signal, since you can't ADD cgms-a to a digital signal.   When the box converts the digital signal to S-Video, it ADDS the CGMS-A at that time.

Jessica has already said she's looking into it, since it makes MCE a bit less that usefull north of the border now.

JessZahn:

I love your math. I'm not sure I can validate it (although I could probably find out how many EPG downloads we do for Canada each day), but I like the theory.

Anyway, no, no update - except that people here are talking about the issue and what to do. I just don't have anything else I can say to you guys at this time.

Another two weeks have rolled by with 7,578 views now.  I won't do the math again :-)

Jessica, how are your guys doing?  Are they talking to the Canadian cable providers?  Will there be a Canadian MCE patch to fix this?

Funny you should bump the thread today. This morning I sent a ping to the folks who handle DRM issues to ask whether there was any news. I haven't heard anything yet.

However, even if I do hear something, it's possible I won't have anything to share publicly.

---

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

DavidinCT:

Wes,

So I would know how Vista works for me (now that it's final), I did a trial this weekend with questionable results. My Rig is a P4 2.8, 1gb ram, PNY 7600gs 512mb card, 30gb OS and 120gb, 150mce, 250mce, A180 hd card in a D-vine HTPC case with a VFD. I am running my system at 1920 X 1080 on my HD set with MCE 2005(1080i runing pefect). For this test I removed my 30gb drive and replaced it with another 20gb drive to install (so I could just pop it back in if I wanted to go back)

Used the vlite project (build your own vista disc, look though my posts for more info) to strip out un-needed stuff (htpc box only, PVR don't need the other stuff) before installing. After tweeking the system I was able to get it running at the 1080i on what I was looking for. I did a fresh install, not an upgrade.

My Decoders: Microsoft's, Nvidia's truevideo(223), and PowerDVD 7.3(blu-ray, HD-dvd decoder). If I used the Microsoft decoder, AMC would work fine accept on my machine it was very choppy on all channels (maybe I need more ram ?). With the Nvidia decoder, picture looked awsome(better than M$'s), no stutter, even when the guide and menu up, even in HD but, AMC would go to the restricted content, this was the same results with the PowerDVD 7.3 decoder. With both of the Nvidia and PowerDVD I ran the Napser DRM fix, and it did nothing (after rebooting after each change and re-running the napster DRM fix).

With the Decoder util for vista, you can change the audo codec and then video codec, so if I used the Nivida codec for the video and Microsoft's for audio, the video would go to restricted content (well with go blue, then picture came back but frozen), but, audio would play fine.

I might for your case, do the Microsoft one, for audio and video, then shut down MCE fully, then run the napster fix and reboot.

Let me know if this helps....

-Dave

 

I posted this here to try to help someone...

http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/thread/182127.aspx

Just thought it would help here, so, it does show that there is a problem depending on the decoder, so, it can be related to software. If you guys need me to run logs or test anything here, I would be willing to help out for the cause. Drop me a PM...

 

---

-Dave

MCP, MCSA, MCSE 2003
Windows Vista Connected Exp:Home Theater for Technologists
Windows Vista Connected Exp:Home Theater for Sales professionals

Home theater specialist (10+ years)

There are quite a few other threads already of fixing DRM issues regarding watching live and playback. 

This thread is specifically about CGMS-A preventing recording at all, and is completely different.

DRM update / reset does not work, nor changing decoders, etc etc. 

Just trying to keep this topic's main issue from getting confused here, thanks anyway :-)

RandyG:

This thread is specifically about CGMS-A preventing recording at all, and is completely different.

DRM update / reset does not work, nor changing decoders, etc etc. 

Just trying to keep this topic's main issue from getting confused here, thanks anyway :-)

Actually it's both, As with MCE 2005, I would test AMC if it showed "restricted content" it would have a *direct effect* with my recordings on NBC and other channels. If this issue showed up on this channel, I would always have a problem with some recordings. I have tested this back and forth 3-4 times now. On MCE 2005, UR2 started the issues.

As for DRM reset, nah, I was not sure if it worked but, someone here *claimed* it worked for them, so I suggested it.

As for changing decoders, you are wrong. I tested it and can prove it on my system. AMC channel is one of the problem channels. With the Micrsoft decoder, it would play fine (besides other issues), when I would use the Nvidia truvideo decoder, it would go to "restricted content" right away. When I used the audio from Microsoft and the nivida decoder for video, the audio would play but, the video would go restricted content. This will have a direct effect with program recordings. This is clearly showing an effect here.

Take no offence to my statement but, I am just stating a fact, it does have an effect on this issue. I agree not to get this too far off topic and I don't feel it is. Also if you read though all the pages on this post, you will see a bunch from me, because I have had this issue in the past.

With everyone here, I am interested in finding a result here, and every part helps to the final part or fix here.

---

-Dave

MCP, MCSA, MCSE 2003
Windows Vista Connected Exp:Home Theater for Technologists
Windows Vista Connected Exp:Home Theater for Sales professionals

Home theater specialist (10+ years)

So if you set up, say 5 recordings for the day,  and went to work.  Then come home, and it didn't record three of them due to CGMS-A preventing the recording, you are saying the video decoder comes into play here?    I didn't think the decoder would even be in the graph at this point, since nothing is displayed during a sheduled recording unless you happen to be watching at the time.

The original question posed by Noirs was "Often a small number of my shows fail to record, and in the windows event log I see errors about copy protection set by the broadcaster.I have basic cable (NTSC) from Rogers here in Canada "   which is the identical problem the rest of us Canadians have up here, CGMS-A "copy never" bits set on the signal.

You CAN watch anything you want live without issue, but recording anything has become a real problem.
Anything that does record has no problems whatsoever watching later.

Posting a solution that helps you play recorded "restricted content" doesn't help since it is impossible to record it to begin with...  that was the reason for my response...

On the other hand, if you are saying changing the decoder allows you to record shows with CGMS-A "Copy Never" bits set  (and I and others (including Jessica herself)  have trapped the signal and know for sure that's what it is)  then I will be the happiest dude ever to toss my Nvidia decoder out the window :-)

I am not offended, and it's Jessica's section anyway... I'm sure she's not bothered :-)   I really hope you aren't either...  no worries in GreenButton land :-)