Got back from work and saw this thread.

As a Microsoft employee, Im bound by a non disclosing agreement (NDA) - so sorry, I cant comment on the specifics of Fiji at this time (although Id love to).

This thread seems full of people: pitching their theories, assumptions, interpretations, "what their friend on the beta told them" - I would suggest that some people (at least) have to be wrong.

Personally, I dont think its unusal for a company to control the release of information on a new product that's being developed. When Fiji is finished, Im sure that marketing can do a better job showing off new features, giving the whole story, rather than me dribbling out the features with typos and probably grammatical mistakes. 

I think its good to see the passion that you guys have for Media Center. Feel free to post overly anti-Microsoft posts. Freedom of speech, and all that. (However, Jeff's right - Im inclined to respond to a thread with a friendly tone, compared to a really hostile one).

Sorry I cant comment more...

Mike 

 

 

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This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

Jeff - this isnt an attack at all, just giving my opinion.

 

If the KB articles here were correct in saying it was released to OEMs in the 16th, a post on or before that date saying 'copies given to OEMS, other people will be able to get it in XYZ days in Q methods' that would have done heaps to help.

TGB is the biggest MCE site to my knowledge, but it relies on someone from an Aussie site (xpmediacentre) to link to two KBs that mention it in passing to know its been released?

By the nature of media centres most of us are on the cutting edge already, I believe it WILL be the way to go but its not quite there yet, so tipping myself over that edge just a little more is what Im wanting to do.

 

Im more annoyed because it goes a long way to helping non-US regions (we get left out in the cold in VMC, dont believe me? have a look at the meta data on Aussie recordings, its not useless, no its far worse then that, its flat out WRONG and breaks allot of tools), yet now in a region where VMC is basically unknown (Australia) were being left out in the cold again.

Any time Microsoft say OEM most of the world reads it as US only, because thats often how it works out, even if those OEMs are in the regions we are in.

I want my multi tuner support, I want my EIT EPG data, etc.  I hope the WTV format gives me PROPER meta data, and more of it.  But right now its saying 'oh we've done the work... but no, you cant have it'.   

You'll have to wait for more official details, but I can assure you... do NOT read "OEM" to mean "US Only".  The international support in this release is one of the main reasons it exists.

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Jeff Tucker
Microsoft | eHome
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This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

I'm willing to wait for official details on the release before I make any real comments.

But rest assured, if it is to be released OEM only, there will be some harsh criticism. Hopefully it won't be personal (it won't be from me) but it would be the biggest mistake MS have made in a long long time.

I've stood by the product and recommended it to my friends, but if MS go down this path that will no longer be the case.

I think the biggest problem comes down to that most common of causes... lack of communication.

That being said I think some of the earlier comments posted here were disgusting in their tone... please realise that this is just a software product.  Sure there are features that I'd like to have but if I don't I'm not going to start swearing at people over it.

I do think though that Microsoft could nip most of these rumours in the bud if they just communicated a bit more.  All that is needed is something along the lines:

"We are currently working on an update which will add XXX features.  We are aiming for a release in Q3 of 2008.  When it is ready we will release to OEMs 4 weeks in advance of making it publically available for download.  When the release to OEM occurs we will let you know and also provide a date on which you will be able to download it yourself. Watch out for some other new features which we hope to surprise you with!"

This clearly communicates that certain features are being worked upon which would at least let people know where they stand.  This could contain those most commonly requested items which are available in most other products already.  The "surprise" features do not need to be detailed but leaves it hanging there for a little bit of speculation - I would have suggested that this could be used for features that are not available in other products and which MS do not want to give away any secrets on.  In addition, the clear setting out of schedules allows everyone to know where they stand.

Surely this is a far better solution than not saying anything other than "we'll make an announcement sometime in the next couple of months".  Being clear and honest with people is half the battle - if MS did this then I think they'd get a much more positive reaction!

Alistair

I was confused at the beginning of this thread, now even more so after just reading the last few pages, what the hell is going on ?

Edit: All this confusion, speculation and in fighting is all down to lack of basic communication from Microsoft. Most of the threads like this one are all down to MS not keeping the community more in the light about what's happening. I know I'm getting tired of all the rumors and speculation around here and the lack of real facts.

 

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Stu

aka C-Dub



The Windows Media Center Blog

Tips Tricks & News!

JeffTucker – MSFT:

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...we will post more information before the official announcements at CEDIA.  You can expect this to include explanations to several of the issues ....

already this doesn't sound good... announcements that require explanations never do.

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New System: Vista/AthlonX2BE/GigabyteGA-MA69G-S3H/HD3450/(2) M780/3GB Ram/320GB&750GB Drive/Westy 32 LCD via HDMI/

Old System: MCE/ Athlon3000+/Asus K8NE Deluxe/vBox Catseye 150/NVTV Dual SD/2GB RAM/250GB HD/Ahanix DVine 4/Westy 32 LCD/

Wow, so we will have to wait until CEDIA (September) until we can receive any information on an update that Microsoft has obviously shipped OEM already. Let me tell you that is an awfully long wait. With so many hard core enthusists jumping ship, this will only make more start to review the Media Center alternatives.
 

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* Intel Petium D 820 on Intel Desktop Board D945GNT
* Hauppauge WinTV-PVR 150
*VistaView DA-1N1-E Combo PCIe tuner
*Linksys extender - :( No more old extender, after upgrading to Vista. So sad.

Well we can hope that Jeff gives us something after he finds out what he can and cannot say.
I love my vista media center a lot and if it wasnt for some of the great guys out there that make truely remarkable plugins, then i would be looking at the alternatives myself.

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Always willing to help.

JeffTucker – MSFT:

Wow.  This was an eye-opening thread... and not in a good way.  There is obviously a lot of frustration about this, but I don't agree with making personal attacks and (in my opinion) very hateful and harsh statements without any real information to back it up.  I was also a little surprised at being personally called out for not posting a response (along with Microsoft in general) to a post that wasn't even one day old.  Thanks guys, really... I feel the love.

That said, I'll refer back to my earlier post on this topic, and say that we will post more information before the official announcements at CEDIA.  You can expect this to include explanations to several of the issues brought up in this thread.  In the meantime, I'll see how much (if any) information I can comment on, and we'll share more details when possible.  However, I encourage future posts to be somewhat respectful, as I will not be responding to any questions within the flaming or overly anti-Microsoft posts.  We all care about the success of Media Center otherwise we wouldn't be here... so please keep that in mind when posting.

im a bit confused...You have released a product to OEMs which possibly means that someone could go out and buy a computer and have this installed on there yet you aren't allowed to tell us anything?

I was personally expecting some sort of big announcement on the front page of TGB or something when "Fiji" was released.

You have a very powerful tool in TGB, remember that a little information can go a long way.

I haven't read any of the previous posts (i was linked directly to your post from AUSXPMCE) so i don't know what was said, but i know how some people can be and there is no excuse for it but they are just frustrated. as am i.

 

JeffTucker – MSFT:

You'll have to wait for more official details, but I can assure you... do NOT read "OEM" to mean "US Only".  The international support in this release is one of the main reasons it exists.

Wow, does that count as a feature confirmation?

Seriously Jeff, you (and I mean the corporate you, I'm not picking on you personally - I'm actually surprised anyone from MS pokes their head above the parapet to this audience!) can't wait until September to release details of a product that's clearly already shipped, but still hasn't had official confirmation.

BTW, I find it rather amusing that a product that's not even a week old, and hasn't been officially announced yet, has two support pages already!

 

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MCE2005 (Reluctantly decided not to upgrade to TV Pack - will see if 7MC fixes the issues) | AMD64X2 3600+ | 1Gb Ram | 3x500Gb SATA | Hauppauge PVR150 | nVidia 7300LE silent GPU | Pig ugly big black case | Virgin Media cable | Xbox 360 wired extender

If it weren't for evidence to the contrary, I would speculate/hope....

Maybe Fiji has split into two upgrades:

1. The OEM only upgrade is the H264 stuff. Maybe the beta test found lots of problems with some hardware / drivers, so MS want this part to only be provided by OEMs who are going to build, test, and sell a fully working system, rather than put it out to general users. By making it OEM only, MS puts the support responsiblity onto the OEMs shoulders. If it was a normal update/SP, end users would be entitled to MS support (this happened with Vista SP1 - if you had pre SP1 Vista OEM, applying the SP entitles you to support from MS rather than the OEM).
2. The rest of Fiji (er... Teletext/MHEG for DVB-T, better album art*, more tuners) isn't so contentious, so can go out on Windows Update for everybody.

*just hoping!

If the reason for making it OEM only is related to support issues with H264, then I really see no reason for them holding back on the rest. Teletext/MHEG is really an essential feature in DVB-T territories.

I vote we stick you in charge, seriously though that does sound like a plausiable solution.
Last couple of weeks there was talk floating around on some of the other media related sites about perhaps 2 updates coming.
My fingers are crossed.

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Always willing to help.

Obviously we're all still guessing about Fiji at this point...

I will say that *IF* Fiji/TV-Pack/Whatever is only available with a new PC purchase, I'll be incredibly disappointed.  Same goes for it being included only with a new copy of Vista. 

I would assume that the only thing different between Vista Home Premium and a Vista "TV Pack Edition" would be the version of Media Center.  It would be truly alienating your current VMC users to force them to buy an entire operating system or PC to update a single component.  Especially given the previous track record of Media Center Rollups that we've all assumed to be the future trend.

I guess we can only sit back wait for some (hopefully) good news from MSFT....

dgaust:

But rest assured, if it is to be released OEM only, there will be some harsh criticism. Hopefully it won't be personal (it won't be from me) but it would be the biggest mistake MS have made in a long long time.

A bigger mistake than not putting V1 extender support in Vista, forcing people to buy new hardware?
A bigger mistake than making the XP 2005 upgrade OEM only, forcing 2004 users to pay again?

I would have thought pople would be used to this kind of thing now, in relation to MCE there is very rarely a "free" upgrade. If you have a big-brand then you beg your OEM and hope they help you. If you go the self-build route expect to be screwed over later.