Actually the title of the thread should be

"TV Pack - I installed it illegally and want to know what I get"

Now, I think that Microsoft should provide details on changes, and should also have listened to developers more in the TV Pack process. I also believe that the media experience bug should have killed the release.

I also thing they should explain to people why certain features that were supposed to be main features of the release.

But I find it hilarious that people who've installed the TV Pack from an illegal download are whinging about lack of information.

I think we should have a full and detailed list of all the new features and changes that were added to the TV Pack. Also a list of any features that were removed, that were previously in the Vista Home Premium and Ultimate editions. A full list of all bugs that the TV Pack fixed, that were in the Home Premium and Ultimate editions. And if these same bugs will be fixed on regular Vista PC's via Windows Update? There should also be an official list of all the new bugs found in the TV pack and some idea on when updates will address those issues?

This is the type of information I feel we should have full access to. I don't believe it has been fully released as yet.

A release of a Microsoft roadmap for Media Center and related products such as Zune, Home Server etc should happen, they have road maps all the time for other corporate products they do so why not Media Center?

There are lots of questions still un-answered some good ones raised in this thread but I doubt we will officially get the answers from MS regarding most of it!

 

---

Stu

aka C-Dub



The Windows Media Center Blog

Tips Tricks & News!

Chris - Moderator:

natlight:

Note to Chris: Instead of looking for individual questions from this community why not ask your buddies at MS for a 1 to 3 year road map so we know what to expect? How about a web site that lists their goals, accomplishments, milestones, bugs and solicits feedback from users. We have all spent good money on their promises but are left with nothing but questions and software with outdated features. 

We want MS to give us a few reasons not to switch to SageTV!

The chances of getting a roadmap from Microsoft is VERY slim.  The chances of getting direct question relating the TV Pack is much better.  Sadly, a lot of the questions that people really want answered relate to the overall platform and future of Media Center and not the TV Pack.

No way Microsoft is publishing a roadmap for Media Center anytime soon.  As Windows 7 gets closer, you will find some stuff get out, but it isn't going to just because TGB members want to know.

No point in a roadmap anyways. Even if they give you a detailed roadmap, are you going to rely on this for something?

cw-kid:

I think we should have a full and detailed list of all the new features and changes that were added to the TV Pack. Also a list of any features that were removed, that were previously in the Vista Home Premium and Ultimate editions. A full list of all bugs that the TV Pack fixed, that were in the Home Premium and Ultimate editions. And if these same bugs will be fixed on regular Vista PC's via Windows Update? There should also be an official list of all the new bugs found in the TV pack and some idea on when updates will address those issues?

This is the type of information I feel we should have full access to. I don't believe it has been fully released as yet.

A release of a Microsoft roadmap for Media Center and related products such as Zune, Home Server etc should happen, they have road maps all the time for other corporate products they do so why not Media Center?

There are lots of questions still un-answered some good ones raised in this thread but I doubt we will officially get the answers from MS regarding most of it!

 

I think we should all get free Zunes. If not Zune then at least some chocolate or candy or something.

al74:

cw-kid:

I think we should have a full and detailed list of all the new features and changes that were added to the TV Pack. Also a list of any features that were removed, that were previously in the Vista Home Premium and Ultimate editions. A full list of all bugs that the TV Pack fixed, that were in the Home Premium and Ultimate editions. And if these same bugs will be fixed on regular Vista PC's via Windows Update? There should also be an official list of all the new bugs found in the TV pack and some idea on when updates will address those issues?

This is the type of information I feel we should have full access to. I don't believe it has been fully released as yet.

A release of a Microsoft roadmap for Media Center and related products such as Zune, Home Server etc should happen, they have road maps all the time for other corporate products they do so why not Media Center?

There are lots of questions still un-answered some good ones raised in this thread but I doubt we will officially get the answers from MS regarding most of it!

 

I think we should all get free Zunes. If not Zune then at least some chocolate or candy or something.

hehe! Yeah free MS candy! We need something to sweeten things right now!

No road map is set in stone, things change due to new technologies being developed or market factors, the competition etc forcing strategies to change or whatever it might be.

But a road map and some information on the things I just mentioned, would give allot of people some hope right now and give us chance to see the direction all this might be going in, we could then plan our systems better to suit the expected approach for the future.

Allot of people are feeling very let down at the moment by Microsoft they seem to be moving away from the enthusiasts and towards an OEM only approach, which for people like me is a killer, I cannot afford expensive OEM systems I just don't have the money.

Microsoft need to do some serious PR work right now to keep the faithful onboard. You can only take so much then after a while you feel like what's the point? Keeping the community in the dark can only do more damage and worsen releations further. That's if Microsoft really care about the community? I'm not so sure!

Or maybe I am wrong and Microsoft owe us nothing. Who knows....

 

---

Stu

aka C-Dub



The Windows Media Center Blog

Tips Tricks & News!

cw-kid:

hehe! Yeah free MS candy! We need something to sweeten things right now!

No road map is set in stone, things change due to new technologies being developed or market factors, the competition etc forcing strategies to change or whatever it might be.

But a road map and some information on the things I just mentioned, would give allot of people some hope right now and give us chance to see the direction all this might be going in, we could then plan our systems better to suit the expected approach for the future.

Allot of people are feeling very let down at the moment by Microsoft they seem to be moving away from the enthusiasts and towards an OEM only approach, which for people like me is a killer, I cannot afford expensive OEM systems I just don't have the money.

Microsoft need to do some serious PR work right now to keep the faithful onboard. You can only take so much then after a while you feel like what's the point? Keeping the community in the dark can only do more damage and worsen releations further. That's if Microsoft really care about the community? I'm not so sure!

Or maybe I am wrong and Microsoft owe us nothing. Who knows....

You could say: "if I had more info on the future of VMC I would invest more money in MSFT product" but you demand this information. Is this something you demand from all of your software/hardware providers? In any event, how can a roadmap from MSFT assist you in determining your current purchase? They talked about Direct TV tuner 2 years ago and nothing happened. They assured us that they are working on fixes to subchannels etc. only to provide them to new OEM PCs. I would not trust any roadmap they may provide.

I've stayed out of these threads for a while waiting to see how things pan out but I've got a direct and simple question.

is there a driver/hardware compatibility list for supported dvbs(2) tuners?

---

http://www.spore.com/view/profile/Vengence_IRL

al74: "I would not trust any roadmap they may provide."

I think it would be very helpful if they would say definitively whether or not the DirecTV HDPC-20 was dead or not.

And where the hell is Jeff Tucker?  He was all high and mightly about being open and how the take over of the TGB was going to be a great thing for everyone.  Has he been heard from since?  He has probably moved on to a different group in Microsoft.  It seems to me that their model for efficiency involves moving people around so there is no accoutability for any products by anybody.

kingwr:

And where the hell is Jeff Tucker?  He was all high and mightly about being open and how the take over of the TGB was going to be a great thing for everyone.  Has he been heard from since?  He has probably moved on to a different group in Microsoft.  It seems to me that their model for efficiency involves moving people around so there is no accoutability for any products by anybody.

I have not gone anywhere, and I apologize for being silent on this thread.  As it happens with everyone, I got caught up with work and family... and my contribution here suffered.  However, keep in mind that while I might not post here daily, much of my day-to-day responsibilities involve overseeing the operations, development, and growth of TGB.  I'm always working to improve things... even if you don't see the results right away.

Now back to the point.  I read this entire thread, and these major topics stick out for me.

1. It seems many community members have unrealistic expectations regarding pre-release product information (e.g. DirecTV, Win 7 , roadmaps, etc.).  It has often been communicated that we don't disclose release dates or confirm features.  While we try to let you know when we are working on features or bug fixes, we simply can't discuss future releases until the broader product release is officially announced.
2. It also seems that many of your questions would be answered if we provided more details about the changes in the TV Pack.  I'll work with the SE team to see if this information is published somewhere, and hopefully I can clarify some of this information for you.
3. It seemed that a lot of you were expecting additional information to be released at CEDIA even though the information was already released here at TGB prior to the conference.  I mentioned in another thread that the only additional information at CEDIA would be in the form of OEM announcements for those with plans to support the TV Pack... nothing more.  It seemed almost as though everyone was expecting some secondary announcement at CEDIA, but there was never any indication that more information was forthcoming.
4. The NDA being lifted just allows the beta testers to talk about the issues everyone already knows about (as stated many times by Chris).  I want to add that Chris did a good job moderating this thread and responding to posts, and some of you gave him grief that he did not deserve... just my personal feelings.

In general, I have no problem trying to answer questions about the TV Pack, and as stated I will try to get some offical details pulled together.  However, the expectation should NOT be that we will offer support for an unsupported installation (this includes documentation to help users with unsupported non-OEM configurations).

---

Jeff Tucker
Microsoft | eHome
------------------------------------------------
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

Jeff,

Thanks for the feedback.  Even if it isn't exactly what we want to hear, it really is nice to get feedback from someone at MS about these issues - even if it is just telling us that we have unrealistic expectations, and we need to get over it.    I for one certainly feel like communication on the boards here between MS and the rest of us has gotten a lot better than it used to be; still not as good as I would like, but a lot better.

---

Just my $0.02.

JeffTucker – MSFT:

It also seems that many of your questions would be answered if we provided more details about the changes in the TV Pack.  I'll work with the SE team to see if this information is published somewhere, and hopefully I can clarify some of this information for you.

I understand Microsoft's policy on not releasing roadmaps and product details until the product is either released to the public or details are announced after careful marketing and business evaluation.

However, since the TV Pack is available for purchase it seems reasonable that product details should now be available.  We need to know what the product offers us so we can make the right purchase decision.

One question that really needs to be answered is "Does the TV Pack support h.264?".  We know that as shipped it does not, but we don't know if we will be able to purchase a 3rd party codec (just like we did with MCE2005) and add h.264 support.  My guess is the answer is "No", but this hasn't been answered anywhere to the best of my knowledge, nor is there any documentation I can find on this.

Another question I have is "Since the Media Center SDK has not changed, is Microsoft going to ensure if we purchase a TV Pack'd system that it will support all of the advertised API's and capabilities?"  Based on what I've read, the current SDK/APIs are NOT necessarily supported by the TV Pack.  We need to know the "official" situation.  Is a patch going to be released to make the TV Pack compliant with the SDK? Roughly when will this happen? Or perhaps there should be an official statement that the TV Pack does not support all of the SDK features that VMC RTM/SP1 supports.  If so, what is not supported?  What can I as a customer expect?

Another question I have is "If I purchase a system with the TV Pack installed and find out it doesn't perform as I need it to (ie critical 3rd party applications don't work), is there a method for me to legally install a version with fully compliant API's (ie can I legally install the Vista RTM/SP1 version)?"  If I'm legally locked in to running the TV Pack version on that PC, this could be a serious issue for me.

Note that I will be actually purchasing a new PC in the next week and I do have the option of getting a system with the TV Pack.  If I buy one with the TV Pack it would give me the advantage of getting support with any issues (even though I'm quite sure I would be forced to go back to a non-TV Pack setup to function the way I want it to - today at least).

As far as the future, Microsoft can obviously do whatever they feel is best as far as releasing roadmap plans, etc. however considering the current state of flux, Microsoft would be wise to at least announce plans to support the changing technologies if they plan to.  How can someone's "plan" for the future possibly include Media Center if it hasn't been announced that h.264 will be supported in the future?

When I consider that VERY soon analog TV sources are going away, CableCard is changing, ATSC is still not supported in Canada, etc. and the fact that Microsoft hasn't said anything at all about supporting future content sources, this says to me loud and clear that Microsoft isn't sure Media Center even has a future.  If Microsoft is dedicated to a future with Media Center, someone needs to figure out a way to fix the message that is being sent.

---

STB w/R5000HD USB I/O, Gigabyte GA-P35-DS4, Quad Q6600, 4.0 GB RAM, ATI HD 3870 512MB, Ultra XVS 600W PSU, 3x SATA 500GB, 2x SATA 300GB, LG GGC-H20L, PVR-250, Toshiba 51H83 (51" HDTV), Yamaha RX-V2400 Amp, 5x Energy Speakers, SVS Sub, Harmony 880 Remote

HT Slider:

JeffTucker – MSFT:

It also seems that many of your questions would be answered if we provided more details about the changes in the TV Pack.  I'll work with the SE team to see if this information is published somewhere, and hopefully I can clarify some of this information for you.

I understand Microsoft's policy on not releasing roadmaps and product details until the product is either released to the public or details are announced after careful marketing and business evaluation.

However, since the TV Pack is available for purchase it seems reasonable that product details should now be available.  We need to know what the product offers us so we can make the right purchase decision.

One question that really needs to be answered is "Does the TV Pack support h.264?".  We know that as shipped it does not, but we don't know if we will be able to purchase a 3rd party codec (just like we did with MCE2005) and add h.264 support.  My guess is the answer is "No", but this hasn't been answered anywhere to the best of my knowledge, nor is there any documentation I can find on this.

Another question I have is "Since the Media Center SDK has not changed, is Microsoft going to ensure if we purchase a TV Pack'd system that it will support all of the advertised API's and capabilities?"  Based on what I've read, the current SDK/APIs are NOT necessarily supported by the TV Pack.  We need to know the "official" situation.  Is a patch going to be released to make the TV Pack compliant with the SDK? Roughly when will this happen? Or perhaps there should be an official statement that the TV Pack does not support all of the SDK features that VMC RTM/SP1 supports.  If so, what is not supported?  What can I as a customer expect?

Another question I have is "If I purchase a system with the TV Pack installed and find out it doesn't perform as I need it to (ie critical 3rd party applications don't work), is there a method for me to legally install a version with fully compliant API's (ie can I legally install the Vista RTM/SP1 version)?"  If I'm legally locked in to running the TV Pack version on that PC, this could be a serious issue for me.

Note that I will be actually purchasing a new PC in the next week and I do have the option of getting a system with the TV Pack.  If I buy one with the TV Pack it would give me the advantage of getting support with any issues (even though I'm quite sure I would be forced to go back to a non-TV Pack setup to function the way I want it to - today at least).

As far as the future, Microsoft can obviously do whatever they feel is best as far as releasing roadmap plans, etc. however considering the current state of flux, Microsoft would be wise to at least announce plans to support the changing technologies if they plan to.  How can someone's "plan" for the future possibly include Media Center if it hasn't been announced that h.264 will be supported in the future?

When I consider that VERY soon analog TV sources are going away, CableCard is changing, ATSC is still not supported in Canada, etc. and the fact that Microsoft hasn't said anything at all about supporting future content sources, this says to me loud and clear that Microsoft isn't sure Media Center even has a future.  If Microsoft is dedicated to a future with Media Center, someone needs to figure out a way to fix the message that is being sent.

Hear hear well said ! These are some of the issues we need an anwser on from MS.

---

Stu

aka C-Dub



The Windows Media Center Blog

Tips Tricks & News!

I have been away with work and have just caught up on this thread.

One of the big things to mention (if it was previosuly discusses I am sorry but I did skim the thread)...

... we are allowed to talk about the beta, but not about our experiences with issues and how they were/wern't dealt with...

... or for that matter, how we feel about the fit and finish of the product.

My mailbox was full of people asking me questions, and I am sorry to say that I can't answer any of the ones posed without being in direct violation of the NDA...

I will say this... I hope MS has learned from the TVPack beta and takes more time to work on the features and more time to deal with the actual issues that come up.

---

My VMC setup:
(2) Xbox360s
System 1 -
Dell XPS410 (2.6Ghz C2D, 2GB Ram,Nvidia 8600GT, Blu-ray internal, HD-DVD external (X360 drive), (2) Vboxx DTA150s (OTA HD), 1 HVR-1150 (OTA HD) and Dish Network

HT Slider:

However, since the TV Pack is available for purchase it seems reasonable that product details should now be available.  We need to know what the product offers us so we can make the right purchase decision.

Hi HT Slider,

Given that TV Pack is only available through the purchase of a large OEM Media Center, your best bet for getting the information you are after is to talk to the OEM that you are thinking of purchasing from, asking them these questions.  They will have (or at least should have!) done a thorough evaluation of the product they are selling, and should be able to tell you if it's going to meet your expectations.

Cheers,
Andrew

AndyC:

HT Slider:

However, since the TV Pack is available for purchase it seems reasonable that product details should now be available.  We need to know what the product offers us so we can make the right purchase decision.

Hi HT Slider,

Given that TV Pack is only available through the purchase of a large OEM Media Center, your best bet for getting the information you are after is to talk to the OEM that you are thinking of purchasing from, asking them these questions.  They will have (or at least should have!) done a thorough evaluation of the product they are selling, and should be able to tell you if it's going to meet your expectations.

Cheers,
Andrew

You can't be serious. I dare you to get a reliable info from an HP or Dell CSR.