jagowar:

hey ben was wondering if you have seen this....  http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=834609

seems to go against your sources about no mpeg4.  its still hard to figure out what is actually true there but this picture specifically (http://www.flickr.com/photos/freesathd/2635825829/) infers h.264 support.  and then later in the thread he says the mpeg4 stuff wont work on extenders yet but does on the pc.  its in no way confirmation but is interesting that your sources are saying no mpeg4.

Maybe the H.264 support is going to be distributed through the extender OEMs as the extenders need a firmware upgrade to make it all work.

It's great the MyMovies does that, but what many want is just a simple installer that will make the built-in DVD Library do it.

As for the second part, it needs to be as simple as installing a single package and then setting the path and rip options.

Honestly I think the real problem is finding a way to bring chapters over.

We should probably start another thread as this is way off topic.

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Ben
How good can it be, if it isn't HD?
Engadget HD

as a plug-in writer, I want to see an improved experience out of the box so that we can

1. Set the metadata that shows up in the Now Playing window

2. Not have to do goofy hacks to hook into the transport controls (play, stop, rewind) and associated events.

3. Being able to control what gets displayed when you press the Stop button. Currenlty, you get that Done window nonsense. The April release did it worse because you are automatically sent to the useless "video details" page if you're playing a non-wtv/non-dvrms file and to the the recorded tv/program info page if you are playing these file types

4. For gosh sake, let us use the "More Info" button.

Seems like the wrong thread for this, but since we are heading there already...

Ripping DVDs is and is-not legal. Depends on your use of the word rip. Breaking the copy protection is a problem due to DMCA, however not all DVDs have copy protection. The most important DVDs to me are ones I have bought from clubs or ones given to me by friends. These are self-released and without protection. These are the things I wan't to be able to stream, so I see no legal reason MS can't offer it. The same technology could be used to streamed dvd's ripped where their protection was broken, but how is that MSs fault? They could choose to not support DVD devices...if you can't attach a DVD drive to a computer, your not going to be able to rip/copy, but clearly that isn't going to happen.

If someone could explain something to me, I'd really appreciate it. What is the legal difference between decrypting a DVD and sending the data to a monitor directly and decrypting a DVD and sending that data (perhaps reencrypted) to a device which really just extends the range of the player? Can't we just consider an entender/monitor the equivilant of a signal booster which pushed the video another 100 feet? That consideration should allow streaming of at least attached DVDs (drive/changer). I don't get the difference...

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Eagles may fly, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines (see bio for exception)

There isn't a LEGAL reason per se, it is a contractual reason. In order for MS to support DVD it has to sign a deal with the MPAA. That contract says they can't do it.

This is the same organization that doesn't want you upconverting DVDs via component, but will let you play Blu-ray discs at full 1080p over the same unprotected connection.

You simply can't apply logic to the MPAA's decisions.

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Ben
How good can it be, if it isn't HD?
Engadget HD

This is nonsense.  SageTV, and many others support this just fine.  They don't support playback of encrypted DVD's, so they don't need to sign the agreement.  When you rip the DVD, you remove CSS.  No problem.

mikesm:

This is nonsense.  SageTV, and many others support this just fine.  They don't support playback of encrypted DVD's, so they don't need to sign the agreement.  When you rip the DVD, you remove CSS.  No problem.

 

except of course that you've now broken the law and are subject to fines and possibly jail time.

charlas:

I really cannot understand why people keep slating MS for not having streaming DVD. They don't have it because it's illegal (sorta) and MS don't want to get involved with a big lawsuite about it, I really can't blame em.

PluckyHD:

Charlas,

It is not illegal if the encryption is kept and it is kept in a closed enviroment (like cable card recordings only streaming to extenders)

Hence Kaladescope won and proved this theory.

Bjdraw:

It is not illegal, but it is a violation of the agreement to even copy the disc to the Hard drive.

As for Kaleidescape, they got sued, so I'm not sure how good of an example that is. Sure they won after a three years, but since then the agreement has been updated to prevent anyone else from doing it.

There is no doubt in my mind that MS would get sued if they tried it. I also don't blame them for not wanting to get sued.

it IS illegal to circumvent copy protection, however it is NOT illegal to make copies for self use IF A.) the disc has no copy protection, and B.) if you don't circumvent the copy protection, Thus is what exactly kaleidescape exactly does, they do a bit for bit copy of the disc without circumventing the copy protection.

However I belive the patents that kaleidescape have would prevent MS or anyone else doing what they do, which might be a reason why we wouldn't see it in Media Center any time soon.

- Josh

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My Blog: MN Maven

Wasnt there an announcement sometime back that dvd streaming was on the table and was going to happen?  CES I think.....   They didnt give a timetable... but......

Add me to the list of very, very disappointed....

You guys crack me up. DVD Streaming is NOT illegal, it is specifically allowed, especially with Windows Vista which was certified for just that. Microsoft simply has not done anything with it. Stripping CSS is illegal, making a copy of a DVD can be illegal depending on a number of factors, but STREAMING a DVD is not illegal in any way shape or form. You can stream a DVD to another source without violating any laws. Also managed copy is not illegal either.

Yes, DVD Streaming AND managed copy are both on the table and Microsoft does have both in the works. I have this from some very reliable sources... (As I was the one to report it at CES...) Though knowing Microsoft who knows when they will see the light of day, and if the new DTV/Fiji rumors prove to be true, I doubt I'll be sticking around to find out.

If SageTV redoes their interface, then I'm making the switch, atleast they seem to care about what we need/want.

Do you have any links to backup your claims? I've never heard of such a thing and I followed this pretty closely. I also find this hard to believe since there isn't nay main stream product that does this that hasn't been sued.

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Ben
How good can it be, if it isn't HD?
Engadget HD

USArcher:

{snip}

Now, your comment about support for other satellite providers is abit unfair.  DirectTV and Microsoft have partnered in this development which means that DirectTV is incurring development costs.  Have European Service providers designed a PC based satellite tuner for their systems?   If they did or planning to then I'm sure Microsoft would be happy to partner with them.

{rant warning ON}

Being European, I share boulder2's frustration 100%.

European satellite providers are, as with all things European, fragmented, monopolistic, slow to realize the value of new technology, and fiercely allergic to any form of competition so they are scared shitless by the possibility of having PCs become capable of receiving satellite (and even more, HD) broadcasts. Not to mention recording them. So they do all they can to lock their customers to proprietary STBs with subscription cards locked (paired) to their own STB models.

AFAIK there are no regular OTA HD broadcasts anywhere in Europe, just test transmissions by a few government (public service) providers such as BBC (UK) SVT (Sweden), etc. none of which are guaranteed to become permanent. These test transmissions are H264. I know of no European country where OTA TV is not fundamentally government owned, if not the content providers at least the infrastructure (DVB-T) owners/operators.

There is also very little FTA TV (terrestrial, satellite, or cable) outside of the public service (=government owned) channels, and vith very few exceptions any HD content available on satellite that's not scrambled, i.e. pay TV.

In Sweden, for instance, I have one (one) OTA HD channel, the test broadcast from SVT, they average about 2-3 real programs a day, and the choice of two satellite providers, both having less than 10 HD channels (the same ones in both cases), all scrambled and it's impossible to receive both operators' channels with the same STB - you'd need 2.

By some incredibly unlikely stroke of chance, European operators have actually agreed on one thing: to use H.264 for all variants of DVB - terrestrial, satellite, and cable. So making a Media Center PC able to receive H.264 DVB-T/S/C would theoretically allow us to have one box, using one single interface, to receive all 3 variants of HDTV. With the flexibility inherent to the HTPC, and developers/vendors picking up the ball, we could conceivably see HTPCs being able to support all the various encryption schemes in use and make the HTPC the true focal point of HDTV in the home.

Microsoft has enough clout and brand awareness to pull this off, including pushing the providers to embrace the HTPC as a complement to STBs. I doubt anyone else does. And if Microsoft declines to be part of this, we'll be stuck in the sorry situation we are in now.

/politby 

 

Since you asked, it would be a very big disappointment to me. I've been waiting like so many others to sign up for DirecTV.  I currently only have 4 OTA channels.

 I've got so much invested in extender hardware (2 Xbox 360s and 1 LinkSYS 2100)  that it would be hard to move to an alternative and disappointing indeed.  In fact in our new home I have removed most of the Coax cable, the thought of having to re-run it to support some lame DTV PVR is sickening.

crmstud:

If SageTV redoes their interface, then I'm making the switch, atleast they seem to care about what we need/want.

Well.... Except support for DVB and teletext subtitles, that is....