bjdraw:

I'm glad they said SOMETHING official, but I just wish the OEM only part wasn't true. But hey, at least we got it one way or another right?

What benefit is that to anyone other than those buying a new computer in the near future? My 2 week old 64-bit HP HPTC is not likely to get the upgrade since it might create some headache for HP support to deal with. So, basically, all current VMC users are screwed. Nice going, Microsoft.

---

HP M9300T HTPC
Vista Home Premium 64-bit
Q9300 2.5ghz Quad-core 1333mhz FSB
4gb DDR2 PC2-6400 RAM
ViXS PureTV-U 48B0 Tuner Card
Hauppauge HVR-2250 Tuner Card
nVidia 8600GT w/512mb DDR3 VRAM
Linksys WT160 Wireless N Router
Linksys DMA2200 Extender

ChiWax:

That's from our perspective as tech users who mess around with tech all the time.  The Green Button crowd often forgets that the average user is clueless.  Literally, they have no idea how easy PCs really are at the end of the day.  They don't add a bunch of stuff to their PCs and still can't be trusted to install something like this without problems.  If you read around some people are finding that certain things don't work anymore after the TV Pack is installed.  MS probably hopes OEMs can keep that from happening to the "average" user.....just my thoughts....Q

Which is exactly why OEMs won't release it as an update. If there's any chance it will increase calls to tech support, they'll keep it locked up for new purchasers only. MS did it this way so that the OEMs and not MS look like the bad guys. What do they care, they already got our money. "Well, we did release it to your manufacturer. It's their decision on whether to make it available as un apdate or not." Real shifty.

---

HP M9300T HTPC
Vista Home Premium 64-bit
Q9300 2.5ghz Quad-core 1333mhz FSB
4gb DDR2 PC2-6400 RAM
ViXS PureTV-U 48B0 Tuner Card
Hauppauge HVR-2250 Tuner Card
nVidia 8600GT w/512mb DDR3 VRAM
Linksys WT160 Wireless N Router
Linksys DMA2200 Extender

yeah theres a few posts over at the silicondust forums asking why wmc doesnt find any channels

wmc doesnt add channels that dont have names, but the hdhr gets channel names from their lineup server as a backup, so lots of people assume its the hdhrs fault :<

SESnut:

yeah theres a few posts over at the silicondust forums asking why wmc doesnt find any channels

wmc doesnt add channels that dont have names, but the hdhr gets channel names from their lineup server as a backup, so lots of people assume its the hdhrs fault :<

Well, at least they added a channel editor where you can enter the necessary info. I had to do this often since Comcast in my area doesn't get the right channel guide.

On top of this, some users who install the TV pack don't receive some channels at all. The dev team there was able to identify what the problem is and released a beta / patch a few hours ago.  The HDHR team has been very proactive and very supportive of the community.

---

Vista Ultimate x64|MSI Custom Built Low Profile|AMD 5800+|4GB DDR2 800Mhz|4x500GB Sammy SATA2 RAID-5|HPG 1600x2|HDHomeRun|HDMI|SPDIF
- - - - - - - - - -
Comments posted here are not the opinion of my employer.

I don't understand how on earth you can justify saying "improved user experience in Europe" and at the same time leaving out H.264 support? It's no less than a scandal! Do you have any idea what's happening outside the US at all?? If you think you do, then you seriously need to fire someone.... I now understand why you don't make VMC a separate product: Because you wouldn't be able to sell it and claim such a big user base...

Ben Reed:

In order to ensure that users get the best experience possible, this update will only be available from OEMs, as they are best positioned to provide the testing and hardware configurations for a great customer experience.

Aren't most systems used for the Media Center experience sold by companies like Dell, HP and Acer ? Are they in any way willing and capable to support this TV pack for existing systems ? If yes, how ? And how about the other OEM's ? What's their strategy towards this TV pack ? Microsoft can't just pass the "hot potato" to the OEMs and hope everything will be allright.

These are questions that need to be adressed shortly in a public announcement by both OEM's and Microsoft. That's what I call partnership. Why not at Cedia in September ?

---

http://www.komforto.com
enjoy the digital lifestyle

Maybe I'm the only one, but I'm glad I bought my Cablecard system before this update hits the OEMs. As it stands, it doesn't provide anything I can't already do. Together with my HDHomeRun, I already have clear-QAM. All the TV Pack provides there is the ability to map the same channels together, but I'm not really sure I want to give up the ability to pin recordings to a type of tuner, especially not until ATI comes out with the firmware upgrade that relaxes DRM, but even then. HDHomeRun recordings will always be DRM free, but Cablecard recordings only if the broadcaster doesn't flag the broadcast. I'd like the ability to specifically record certain broadcasts via the Cablecard tuners to keep the HDHomeRun available.

What this update does is take away quite some functionality, though. It appears that it breaks WebGuide for now, which is a showstopper for me. The bigger issue is the new file format, though. It will be quite a while before applications like VideoReDo etc. recognize the new format. What good is a DRM free recording if you can't edit the video or burn it with your favorite software to DVD, because non of these applications support the new file format? Burning DVDs from within Media Center is just way to slow to be a viable option even in the interim.

I live in Ireland and here I use two sources of FTA TV, local DVBT which is now in MPEG4/H.264 and Freesat from the Astra satellites which also carries FTA H.264 HD material. I recently had the opportunity of trying a system with multiple dba tuners which received all the channels from the above sources and integrated the sources in one guide. It was a bit slow in spots but it got me excited. The answer was in sight! The machine was running FIJI!

   Now I gather even if I had TV Pack 2008 I would have no H.264.

Dear Mr Microsoft please tell me why. We give you very favourable tax rates here. Please do something in return.

While I am disappointed in the lack of h.264 and DirecTV support there are good features, even though I hate to admit it.

---

My VMC setup:
(2) Xbox360s
System 1 -
Dell XPS410 (2.6Ghz C2D, 2GB Ram,Nvidia 8600GT, Blu-ray internal, HD-DVD external (X360 drive), (2) Vboxx DTA150s (OTA HD), 1 HVR-1150 (OTA HD) and Dish Network

rgreenpc:

While I am disappointed in the lack of h.264 and DirecTV support there are good features, even though I hate to admit it.

It's not the features that disappoint me it's MSFT approach and customer service. Their end users were waiting for these bug fixes (and yes, I see the added support for HD as a bug fix and not as a new feature as this has been advertised as an HD supported product since it's inception and it realy isn't) for more than a year and now have to resort yet again to an unsupported solution (i.e., the leaked version). From now on if you make the unwise decision to purchase a MSFT product you need to do a lot of research to confirm that it actually does what it claims it does and assume that this is the last version of the product you will ever have access to. If you are OK with such a product experience as a consumer then go a head and purchase the products. I will not.

superswiss:

Maybe I'm the only one, but I'm glad I bought my Cablecard system before this update hits the OEMs. As it stands, it doesn't provide anything I can't already do. Together with my HDHomeRun, I already have clear-QAM. All the TV Pack provides there is the ability to map the same channels together, but I'm not really sure I want to give up the ability to pin recordings to a type of tuner, especially not until ATI comes out with the firmware upgrade that relaxes DRM, but even then. HDHomeRun recordings will always be DRM free, but Cablecard recordings only if the broadcaster doesn't flag the broadcast. I'd like the ability to specifically record certain broadcasts via the Cablecard tuners to keep the HDHomeRun available.

You are incorrect in your assesment of the update in regards to tuner control. You don't give up the ability to control what is recorded on what channel. You can set it up the same way it is now. But now you also have the choice to combine them automatically.

Before the TV Pack the only way to handle conflicts using differnt types of tuners was manually. Now you can set a prefered tuner for each channel. So the channels I get OTA are preferred, but if the OTA tuners are used up, it automatically uses a DCT. This makes it possible for me to record 4 shows at once on nights when the big 4 networks all show their new shows on the same night. This also eliminates (or not) the duplicate channels. No more explaining to the wife that both channel 800 and 1101 are channel 10, since now both are channel 10.

For anyone who uses ATSC or QAM, this is a major improvement.

---

Ben
How good can it be, if it isn't HD?
Engadget HD

superswiss:

Maybe I'm the only one, but I'm glad I bought my Cablecard system before this update hits the OEMs. As it stands, it doesn't provide anything I can't already do. Together with my HDHomeRun, I already have clear-QAM. All the TV Pack provides there is the ability to map the same channels together, but I'm not really sure I want to give up the ability to pin recordings to a type of tuner, especially not until ATI comes out with the firmware upgrade that relaxes DRM, but even then. HDHomeRun recordings will always be DRM free, but Cablecard recordings only if the broadcaster doesn't flag the broadcast. I'd like the ability to specifically record certain broadcasts via the Cablecard tuners to keep the HDHomeRun available.

What this update does is take away quite some functionality, though. It appears that it breaks WebGuide for now, which is a showstopper for me. The bigger issue is the new file format, though. It will be quite a while before applications like VideoReDo etc. recognize the new format. What good is a DRM free recording if you can't edit the video or burn it with your favorite software to DVD, because non of these applications support the new file format? Burning DVDs from within Media Center is just way to slow to be a viable option even in the interim.

Great point...   I feel the same way...  I always try to record on the HDHR whenever possible because of no DRM.... and it keeps my ATI CC tuners avail for premium watching/recording.

---

myspace.com/patsowellproject

Velocity Micro Z70:
Vista Ultimate 32-bit
Core 2 Quad Q9450
4GB DDR2-800
512MB ATI Radeon 3450
2 x ATI OCUR DCT's
HDHomeRun dual QAM
300GB 10k RPM for OS
2TB RAID5
2 x Xbox 360's
52" LCD 1080p
40" LCD 1080p

bjdraw:

superswiss:

Maybe I'm the only one, but I'm glad I bought my Cablecard system before this update hits the OEMs. As it stands, it doesn't provide anything I can't already do. Together with my HDHomeRun, I already have clear-QAM. All the TV Pack provides there is the ability to map the same channels together, but I'm not really sure I want to give up the ability to pin recordings to a type of tuner, especially not until ATI comes out with the firmware upgrade that relaxes DRM, but even then. HDHomeRun recordings will always be DRM free, but Cablecard recordings only if the broadcaster doesn't flag the broadcast. I'd like the ability to specifically record certain broadcasts via the Cablecard tuners to keep the HDHomeRun available.

You are incorrect in your assesment of the update in regards to tuner control. You don't give up the ability to control what is recorded on what channel. You can set it up the same way it is now. But now you also have the choice to combine them automatically.

Before the TV Pack the only way to handle conflicts using differnt types of tuners was manually. Now you can set a prefered tuner for each channel. So the channels I get OTA are preferred, but if the OTA tuners are used up, it automatically uses a DCT. This makes it possible for me to record 4 shows at once on nights when the big 4 networks all show their new shows on the same night. This also eliminates (or not) the duplicate channels. No more explaining to the wife that both channel 800 and 1101 are channel 10, since now both are channel 10.

For anyone who uses ATSC or QAM, this is a major improvement.

Okay...  well that makes sense.  I don't know how often that will be a concern for me, but I do see the benefit.  Thanks for clearing that up Ben!

---

myspace.com/patsowellproject

Velocity Micro Z70:
Vista Ultimate 32-bit
Core 2 Quad Q9450
4GB DDR2-800
512MB ATI Radeon 3450
2 x ATI OCUR DCT's
HDHomeRun dual QAM
300GB 10k RPM for OS
2TB RAID5
2 x Xbox 360's
52" LCD 1080p
40" LCD 1080p

FSUGrad1999:

You are incorrect in your assesment of the update in regards to tuner control. You don't give up the ability to control what is recorded on what channel. You can set it up the same way it is now. But now you also have the choice to combine them automatically.

Before the TV Pack the only way to handle conflicts using differnt types of tuners was manually. Now you can set a prefered tuner for each channel. So the channels I get OTA are preferred, but if the OTA tuners are used up, it automatically uses a DCT. This makes it possible for me to record 4 shows at once on nights when the big 4 networks all show their new shows on the same night. This also eliminates (or not) the duplicate channels. No more explaining to the wife that both channel 800 and 1101 are channel 10, since now both are channel 10.

For anyone who uses ATSC or QAM, this is a major improvement.

I know you can set it up the same it is now, but for that I don't need the TV Pack. I've already set it up like that on my current system. The preference thing is what doesn't work in the scenarios I'm thinking about. By setting the preference, all you do is tell MC which tuners to use first. Here's the scenario I'm talking about that can't be accomplished with preferences. Let's say you have three recordings scheduled and you set the ClearQAM as preferred and let's say you have 2 ClearQAM and two CableCards. Let's say I really want the 3rd recording DRM free. I can't do that unless I have seperate channels for ClearQAM and CableCard, otherwise the first two recordings will take the ClearQAM tuners and the 3rd will go to the first CableCard tuner. Yes, combining the channels makes it easier for the wife, but you won't be able to tell if something you record will be DRM free or not. It will all depend on which tuners happen to be available based on your current recording schedule.

My way to determine how good a media center SW is, is to compare it with my STB (an old Nokia 9802).

With fiji loaded it looked like it would be an even fight.

The STB is better on teletext (it will cache pages better for example), managing channels is also easier but WMC has a better epg.

So far so good but then comes the major misstake with fiji. Once again MS fails to provide a DVB-S soloution. The beta had HD support so there seemed to be a posibility for DVB-S2 finally. HD support was stricken but I guess we could wait for Win7 there, but there isn't true DVB-S support either. And that is a major issue. All the major distributors in europe transmits encoded DVB-s making cam support a absolute requierment. My dish can recive about 400 channels. 3 of them are FTA. The rest requires subscriptions.

Unfortunally that means (if my info about fiji is correct) that the 10 year old STB wins on knockout. It can provide picture on the channels I want to watch, Fiji can not (unless using workarounds from for example Digital Everywhere).