I just use mymovies.

I think mymovies backend is great, I love the high res cover art and ease of use especially the rip and folder monitoring features it has as well, its just the crappy interface that spoils it.

I look forward to people creating new MCML frontends that use the mymovies backend. But i'm a little confused as to why people are focusing their efforts on creating a database and collection mananagement program when mymovies currently has a decent one in place with 1000's of users.

Not criticing, but from a selfish point of view I suppose i'd rather see people focusing their time just on creating an excellent MCML frontend.

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c2d 6600 | 2gb Ram | 7800gt Gfx | Vista Ultimate x86

tom_son:

I just use mymovies.

I think mymovies backend is great, I love the high res cover art and ease of use especially the rip and folder monitoring features it has as well, its just the crappy interface that spoils it.

I look forward to people creating new MCML frontends that use the mymovies backend. But i'm a little confused as to why people are focusing their efforts on creating a database and collection mananagement program when mymovies currently has a decent one in place with 1000's of users.

Not criticing, but from a selfish point of view I suppose i'd rather see people focusing their time just on creating an excellent MCML frontend.

Not to be rude, but the whole point of the Open Source Open Media Library is that everything is open source.  The trouble in the past with some of the best apps that have been made by developers on this forum is that they lose interest or lack time to continue working on those apps.  With the source code of those apps not being Open Source, no one else can continue working on the app.  In such, some of the best apps have died, take a look at Tim Moore FireSTB app, which was excellent.

In this scenario, you also don't want to be stuck putting all your eggs in one basket with MyMovies as the database backend.  If the Open Source Open Media Library depends on it solely, if the creator of MyMovies ever decided against the sharing of his backend app, or makes changes detrimental to Open Media Library, this app would be dead.

I believe the developers are taking the right approach in this case on building a seperate open source database back end, but also planning for also allowing Open Media Library to use the MyMovies database backend in the future.

From my selfish point of view, I'd rather wait another 3 months to get a completely open source product out there, than to get one based in some part on proprietary applications, which could render the product useless if anything regarding that proprietary application changes.

A great example of a total open source project is XBMC <Xbox Media Center>, which due to the fact that it is open source is now being ported to Windows and OS X. 

Just my 2 cents,

<Flame Suit On>

-D

Yeah, good comment. Only Brian has mad some kind of "pact", where he is asking/letting people make frontends for his own backend. So when he does this, he has to have some "programmers decency" in how / when he changes his software package.

In my opinion, people can make their own, open source database, but start with the frontend first, so everyone has a fully working application, in combination with mymovies, then, afterwards, you've got time enough, to both work on a own backend / make improvements on the frontend part.

I really think a good frontend is in the making, can't wait to see ;-)

houseofdreams:

Yeah, good comment. Only Brian has mad some kind of "pact", where he is asking/letting people make frontends for his own backend. So when he does this, he has to have some "programmers decency" in how / when he changes his software package.

In my opinion, people can make their own, open source database, but start with the frontend first, so everyone has a fully working application, in combination with mymovies, then, afterwards, you've got time enough, to both work on a own backend / make improvements on the frontend part.

I really think a good frontend is in the making, can't wait to see ;-)

I'm sure Brian is a nice guy and has the best of intentions.  But do I wanna base my entire front end on a backend from someone who has not been able to bring out his own new front end in over a year?  I dunno, maybe I'm too much of a conspiracy theorist but I find it totally strange that the latest version with a new front end always seems to be right around the corner, and then suddenly he opens the backend for anyone to develop a front end for.

The only way that makes sense is if he's hit a road block, or has gotten wore out.  So you open yourself up to third party front ends, see who develops the best one, strike a partnership/deal where that really neat front end becomes the new standard front end of MyMovies, and now both make a profit.  Maybe I'm too much of a conspiracy theorist.....  I'm sure the government had nothing to do with JFK's death either :)

The really nice front end is there already for all intent purposes.  But the rest of the framework structure is necessary as well.  And one of the biggest pieces is the database backend.

-D

Dravor - That was a good point about developers abandoning locked sourced apps, something I didn't really take into consideration as mymovies is quite an established if not the most established plugin. But at anypoint brian could just encrypt the database or even sell the software and we'd all be lost.

It wasn't meant to be a real negative post, I think like a lot of people i'm quite impatient waiting for a decent frontend and want it as soon as possible.

Speaking of xbox media center, I remember using one of the first builds a month or so in and thought it was pretty ok for an open source effort, and then installed a new version for a friend about 3 years later and was just amazed at what was on offer and how far it had come. Really makes me wonder why ms don't pull their finger out and employ some of these people to make this media center something real special.

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tom_son:

Dravor - That was a good point about developers abandoning locked sourced apps, something I didn't really take into consideration as mymovies is quite an established if not the most established plugin. But at anypoint brian could just encrypt the database or even sell the software and we'd all be lost.

Brian has been pretty clear that he wants to work with others.  Plus, they appear to be developing for multiple backends, which solves that problem.  Once again, putting all the eggs in one basket is most likely not the best idea.  Also, since it is open source other developers could jump in a provide another backend or framework for the database.  Endless possibilities.

BTW, to better illustrate the point of developers just dropping the project and leaving, how many people here knew that My Movies (which started as My DVD Collection) was not even the first plug-in of its kind for Media Center?

A developer named Bill did several releases of his DVD Jukebox, and then just up and left.  Brian was a user of the app, and picked up development of his own.  He is one of the few developers who has stuck to it.

This is a key reason I always get upset with people who do nothing but put third party apps down.  Yeah, it's not perfect and it would be nice if is was MCML, but Brian has been working nonstop for 4 years on getting it perfect.

I think it serves everyone best to work with Brian when he is offering services that have been built up over the years.

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Chris Lanier
The Green Button Forum Moderator

Chris - Moderator:

This is a key reason I always get upset with people who do nothing but put third party apps down.  Yeah, it's not perfect and it would be nice if is was MCML, but Brian has been working nonstop for 4 years on getting it perfect.

I think it serves everyone best to work with Brian when he is offering services that have been built up over the years.

Chris,

I am not here trying to argue you with, and I'm not trying to be arrogant, so please don't see it that way :)  Maybe my response below will clarify why I feel so strongly about my views with this project.

I have actually been a big supporter of many of third party apps that have evolved heavily on this forum.  MyMovies simply has not been a third party app I've personally cared for, but it's not like I go around bashing it, so I hope I have not come across that way.
Any time I've mentioned my personal dislike for MyMovies, I've also mentioned that it works quite well for lot's of people, just not for me.

Brian should be commended for his efforts for the past 4 years, however, it seems to me that the pace of developments has definitely slowed over the past year or so.  For that reason, and the fact that the backend piece itself is not open source, is why I think the MyMovies backend should not be the primary backend piece for this product.

Now if Brian were to come out, and make the code for his back end open source, then I would be all for using it.  One of the best plugins we had was Webguide.... have we forgotten what happened there?  The entire plugin was great, then Microsoft purchased, and all development has ceased, and where does that product sit now?  So let's say everyone starts using Brians MyMovies backend.... what happens when Microsoft decides it's tired of the MyMovies product sitting out there, when it wants to release it's own.... They buy the product from Brian.... and suddenly all apps using that backend database, are left on the sidelines.  I'm sure Brian loves his product, and would never think of letting it go, but when Microsoft throws a seven figure sum your way, would you let it pass by?

Finally I think innovation is always going to be the key when it comes to third party apps.  The drive to innovate is what has created some of the best third party apps we have seen here like VistaWeather, DVDLibrary by Tiranu, Movie Collector, etc etc.  The fact that the developers are strivingto innovate with the backend database for this Open Media Library is bound to bring new mechanisms to the table which will improve the entire backend database.  Who knows maybe with collaberation between Brian and the developers of this app, they may even be able to help improve the MyMovies backend database piece.

-D

dravor:

One of the best plugins we had was Webguide.... have we forgotten what happened there?  The entire plugin was great, then Microsoft purchased, and all development has ceased, and where does that product sit now?  So let's say everyone starts using Brians MyMovies backend.... what happens when Microsoft decides it's tired of the MyMovies product sitting out there, when it wants to release it's own.... They buy the product from Brian.... and suddenly all apps using that backend database, are left on the sidelines.  I'm sure Brian loves his product, and would never think of letting it go, but when Microsoft throws a seven figure sum your way, would you let it pass by?

As an active beta & alpha tester for Doug & Webguide, please let me try to set this straight.  Microsoft didn't purchase WebGuide, they hired Doug for one of their teams.  Yes, it is unfortunate Doug is no longer able to work on the project, but through an arrangement with Microsoft, Doug was able to make WebGuide a free product instead of for purchase.  It is very-very stable also, and I still use it to this day.

I do see your point though, and I wouldn't recomment placing all your eggs in one basket.  I do see where it would make sense to embrace Brian's database early in your development though.  This would allow users to start testing your plug-in, as it is a lot easier to test  with a database already intact.  This would also draw users to your plug-in.  Then, this would allow you to start development on your own open-source backend.  It wouldn't make sense to wait the 3 years for your backend to mature before allowing Brian's database as a second option.

This is similar to how Brian developed his own database.  He allowed My Movies to be used with the IMDB, then migrated over to his own.  You need eager users to populate your database, and I honestly don't think you will get those w/o having them hooked on your product already.

Just my thoughts though.

bledsoe:

I do see your point though, and I wouldn't recomment placing all your eggs in one basket.  I do see where it would make sense to embrace Brian's database early in your development though.  This would allow users to start testing your plug-in, as it is a lot easier to test  with a database already intact.  This would also draw users to your plug-in.  Then, this would allow you to start development on your own open-source backend.  It wouldn't make sense to wait the 3 years for your backend to mature before allowing Brian's database as a second option.

My point exactly...

Personally, if it were me I would design my own backend metadata schema and store then, once that's settled, write an importer so that the end-user doesn't lose the investment in their current mymovies stuff. This might have been mentioned in this thread or on the open source site but the importer should be plug-in based so that people can write their own importers. This makes the whole thing scalable.

Piggy-backing of that, I think the project should start a secondary discussion/forum whatever to at least get people to a consensus on tv series metadata schema. I know, I know: "Movie first." Still, ideally this should really be a video library project to rival the rest in terms of flexibility and coverage. If a schema can be decided upon that was rich enough to natively support the 'core metadata' from movie, recorded tv, and 'tv series' stuff then it could go a long way to simplify all the bajillion video plug-ins out there.

Just my toonies.

Wow, I had no idea using MyMovies as a backend would start up such a vibrant conversation.  So, for those of you that are interested in what exactly we're doing (the OML development team), I'll give you all some basic ideas about what our current plans are (and some future ideas).

Our current plan is to only support our own internal database (and maybe external xml files, that will be decided in a meeting later today).  So, I'm pretty sure I've stated this before but the breakdown goes like this:

Library (the actual vmc plugin)
OMLEngine: the real work goes here, all db interaction and the like.
OMLDatabase Editor:  This will be our own db editor (add/edit/remove/etc).  Don't expect something pretty, just functional.
OMLSDK:  This may or may not be available on the first release (I hope so, we'll see how development on it goes).  If it is then the idea will be to provide either an interface definition or a set of classes that will allow anyone to write a library to create entries in the OML database from their favorite source.  The SDK will NOT allow others to write a plugin for a backend database.  That is a cool idea and something that we plan to discuss, but it's not on the radar for the moment.

So, all this talk of 3rd party backends, I cannot say that we will or will not support anything other then our own db.  That being said, I can tell you that we have been in contact with a number of vendors (all of which have been very helpful both with actual software and advice) of popular products such as: DVD Profiler, Movie Collectorz, MyMovies, Movie Label 2k9 and others.  We are looking at both exported xml support as well an a tighter inegration on a product by product basis.

This type of feature is currently on the list of Release2 features so you won't see it at first but that doesn't mean we're not working on it.

Our real focus right now is to finish up the first release and get it out the door so to speak.  We now have team "leads" for each major component except one; installer.  So, if any of you have some good wix skills and would like to get involved, by all means... please drop us a line over here

Thanks for letting me type your ear off, comments, requests, suggestions and the like are always encouraged.

Btw, we're working on putting up a website so everyone can keep track of what we're doing and what our planned timelines are, stay tuned for now.

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OpenMediaLibrary - Senior Programmer

Any ETA on a first release? Not to push, just to know what to expect ;-)

Keep up the good work

Actually no, but we have a meeting later today to discuss just that.  I can say that the engine is fully functional for first release and the UI is pretty darn close (we could release the UI as is but it wouldn't be any fun).  The editor needs a bit of work and we really need someone with wix skills to step up (or I'll have to learn it).  We could release it with a batch file or something that will do the install but that would kinda sux I think.  Hopefully after the meeting we'll be able to provide some kind of timeline, it's soon though, I can at least say that.

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OpenMediaLibrary - Senior Programmer

translucent:

Actually no, but we have a meeting later today to discuss just that.  I can say that the engine is fully functional for first release and the UI is pretty darn close (we could release the UI as is but it wouldn't be any fun).  The editor needs a bit of work and we really need someone with wix skills to step up (or I'll have to learn it).  We could release it with a batch file or something that will do the install but that would kinda sux I think.  Hopefully after the meeting we'll be able to provide some kind of timeline, it's soon though, I can at least say that.

No problem. Again, keep up the good work, I will be waiting ;-)

Hopefully sometime in the very near future. I can post a general roadmap of what we hope to include. At that point I think we would ask for features and we will try to fit in as much as possible (in later versions). I think once we get the ball rolling on this things will happen quickly. Don't think we are leaving you out if our early versions don't include your feature, my goal is to try to have as much as a full featured version as possible. We are trying to get a website set up and I think that would be the main contact point in the future. My goal is to have as much communication with the community as possible. As translucent said, as soon as we decide on things as a group we will let everyone else know what the plan is. Of course we could use all the help we could get, so if anyone else want to join up let me know.