Matt Olsen:

HT Slider:

Matt, do you live in Canada?

Are you affected by this issue in Canada?

I've been perfectly clear that I don't live in Canada, as well as on a number of these other points...

Guys, he doesn't live here, it's a biT uncleaR why he's even pOsting on the canadian thread. LL

Anyway, here's one for fun...

Say Microsoft sold a car for the last 4 years in Canada,
Then (Dec 2006) the USA mandated an additive for gasoline
So Microsoft updates ALL the cars on their next "dealer service" to only run right with this exact addtive.  In Canada too.
But Canada has no such mandate, and doesn't have any such specific addive rules.
So now the cars (that people were driving for 4 years) suddenly don't run properly anymore
Then Microsoft continues to market this car in Canada - for over a year - knowing full well it doesn't run properly here - yet doesn't advertise that kinda crucial fact when you are buying it.

Who's problem is it?   This isn't rocket science.   No matter how much blah blah blah anyone says, it's just not right, it's deceitful.  If it wasn't for the EULA, it would be fraudulent too.

Matt Olsen:

Tikker:

Matt

Why does MCE even react to the CGMS-A flag in canadian programming?

that's the whole point

That's been asked, answered, and the answer has largely gone ignored by people who want to turn this into a conspiracy. It is because, for whatever reason, they've made a deliberate decision not to vary content protection by region.  It is NOT because they don't understand the laws in Canada.  That's the point I've been making from the beginning.  I mean, it's possible that they don't but I've seen zero evidence of it.  It's even possible that they locked themselves into that decision in the past when they didn't understand the laws in Canada.  But their inability (or unwillingness) to change that decision likely has nothing to do with their comprehension of the law at this point, all yelling and flailing aside.

I'm not even saying that it's a good reason.  I'm saying, based on having pretty good horsey sense of how the business world works, that there's a different reason than the one you're asserting over and over.

Tikker:

it's MS's fault that it's reacting to a flag that shouldn't be reacted to

it's as simple as that

can you honestly say otherwise?

It is, indeed, Microsoft's decisions that cause its software to respond as it does.

So, what exactly is your point after all this?

It seems you agree that MS is boning Canada with a flag that doesn't exist in Canadian law.

I don't think you actually understand the scope of what's happening here
It's not like a show here and there fails to record

depending on your provider, and the stuff you want to watch, you can have well over 50% failure rate on recordings, for no reason other than MS doesn't give a crap about the Canadian market

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HTPC#1: MSI K8NGM2-FID, Athlon X2 3800+, 1gb kingston ram, Nvidia Dual Tuner, MCE 2005

HTPC#2: ASUS M2NBP-VM CSM, Athlon X2 3800+, 1gb kingston ram, Hauppauge 150MCE, MCE 2005

This is not part of the Ms vs Canada under current that has popped up in this thread, but I have started getting the Restricted Content message a lot more recently, but it seems to be with only one of my tuners.  I have not gotten it yet on the other tuner which is consistent with how I fix the problem.  I think in my case it may be something with my cable card.  I may try to replace the card from the tuner that is giving me the issues to see if the helps.

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My Network Project - Media Center Blog

Matt Olsen:

frickinmuck:

matt, are you being deliberately obtuse, or are you simply ignoring what people are trying to say (because maybe it's fun to call people conspiracy theorists, yellers and flailers)?

You're arguing with someone else, as well.  It makes perfect sense to me that you guys would be angry.  There are specific, reoccurring accusations and misconstruals of what MS reps have said that are baseless, needlessly personal, and counterproductive to your goals.  But I appear to be speaking in some kind of code.

 

Not really, I've given up on arguing about it and found my own solution to the problem.  It's simply because some people have spent huge amounts of money on a much better solution to recording TV than those ugly boxes out there.  And frankly, I quite enjoy WMCE, it has alot of great features, but when it got hobbled by the CGMS-A filter a year and a half ago, it was extremely upsetting.

M$ is a bit of a corporate boogeyman as well.  The OS is somewhat unstable at the best of times, and M$ does exercise a frustrating monopoly over the industry that makes one feel less like a customer, and more like a citizen a brutally beaucratic government.

Fill out the forms in triplicate, and you MIGHT get a fix, that is, if anyone bothers to read your form.

And make sure the Blue Screen of Death doesn't hit you in the butt on your way out.

<shrug>

I've just given up on caring and made my media center work as best as it can, and crashless as possible.

It doesn't mean it doesn't pi$$ me off on occasion, and obviously, I resent M$ for it.

Tikker:

I don't think you actually understand the scope of what's happening here
It's not like a show here and there fails to record

No, problems here and there is the problem I get.  I don't even try any more on a couple of channels.  I get that Media Center is unusable in Canada as a PVR.  I haven't invested nearly what many of you have in this solution, but even so I've sunk several hundred dollars and, yeah, I have no problem imagining myself being really angry if I were having your issues. 

But, again, you're awfully quick to assume what someone does and does not understand.  I'm just here to encourage you to bark up the right tree. ;)

Matt Olsen:

I'm just here to encourage you to bark up the right tree. ;)

microsoft = the right tree.

I'm starting to realize you're just being trollish because you have some self-righteous idea that nitpicking what others say puts you on the high road. I'll let you off on that if you promise to change the subject and move on.

feel free to explain how it could be anyone other than MS's fault for doing something with a signal that doesn't apply to this region?

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HTPC#1: MSI K8NGM2-FID, Athlon X2 3800+, 1gb kingston ram, Nvidia Dual Tuner, MCE 2005

HTPC#2: ASUS M2NBP-VM CSM, Athlon X2 3800+, 1gb kingston ram, Hauppauge 150MCE, MCE 2005

frickinmuck:

Matt Olsen:

I'm just here to encourage you to bark up the right tree. ;)

microsoft = the right tree.

I'm starting to realize you're just being trollish because you have some self-righteous idea that nitpicking what others say puts you on the high road. I'll let you off on that if you promise to change the subject and move on.

Motion seconded.  I fail to see how instigating the self- and/or cross-examination contributes to a) resolving the issue or b) relieving our stress, in fact I'd go so far as to say things are getting somewhat counter-productive.

This post emails itself to me with each new iteration, yet somehow this has turned into a meaningless debate about who said what and who should've said a different thing to a different person, rather than focusing on what's actually important here:

Effecting effective change, specifically by the people who control our living rooms - regardless of buck-passery, it's Microsoft who got where they wanted to (in our living rooms) and yet are leaving us high and dry.

g.

 

frickinmuck:

Matt Olsen:

I'm just here to encourage you to bark up the right tree. ;)

microsoft = the right tree.

I'm starting to realize you're just being trollish because you have some self-righteous idea that nitpicking what others say puts you on the high road. I'll let you off on that if you promise to change the subject and move on.

Microsoft employees are mentally incapable of understanding that Canadian law does not require flag enforcement = the wrong tree
Microsoft needs to be pressured by consumers to change their stance on regional settings so  Canadians get the usable PVR that they paid for = the right tree

That's not a nitpick or some slight nuance that I'm harping on.  It's the right thing to do to get this issue fixed.  I like this community and it matters to me how we treat each other as human beings.  Selfishly, I have a stake in our continued access to MS information via employees here.  I won't pretend that my motives are all noble.  I'm just plain human so when I see a dozen posts that amount to "Are you stupid?  CGMS-A doesn't apply in Canada!" I'm going to get irritated because the person saying that obviously isn't trying to understand what the situation is or what they're hearing.  What it comes down to, if I'm being honest, is that I'm mostly  irritated by the foolishness of shouting the same thing over and over 1) thinking it will make a positive difference and 2) doing so when the other person almost certainly knows that information already.  It just seems so bizarre.

You're right about an important point, though.  I've said what I have to say.  If someone wants to take that as "MS is doing a great job in Canada!  Hooray!" as some have over and over, that's on them.  All I want is a more adult-level dialogue with MS on this issue, even with the appropriate anger.  Many of you have communicated your positions very well on this thread and I am confident that more people at MS are motivated to act as a result.  As I've said for a couple of days, MS's near-term fix is very dissappointing and I hope you have better luck at some point in the future.

Peace.

well, if you read Tim's little snippet of how they're approaching the issue, it's clear they don't actually understand what the problem is


despite the fact that it's been spelled out to them for about a year

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HTPC#1: MSI K8NGM2-FID, Athlon X2 3800+, 1gb kingston ram, Nvidia Dual Tuner, MCE 2005

HTPC#2: ASUS M2NBP-VM CSM, Athlon X2 3800+, 1gb kingston ram, Hauppauge 150MCE, MCE 2005

Ok, so no posts about this for ~10 hours so I will (perhaps foolishly) assume the infighting's done. 

So now what are the action items?  Are we waiting for further communication from someone at Microsoft?

What should I, as a Canadian experiencing this issue, do?  (I suppose this is the question we're all asking ourselves, at least those of us still here...)

g.

 

Tim made it pretty clear, as far as I can see.

RandyG:

We (Canadians) should just sit in our Igloos and forget about terrestrial digital, satellite tv, digital cable, cable boxes, and CableCard.   Forget recording off US networks, superstations, and anything past the "Basic Cable" tier.  Forget about the fact that pre-RU2,  we were allowed to record everything.   We should throw away our $300 extenders, throw away our $200 cable boxes, throw away MCE, upgrade to VISTA, screw analog cable TV right to the back of our cards and record Canadian content off CBC, since that's all we are allowed to do now, according to Microsoft. 

You can now:
1)  Wait.  ( it's been a year and a half already - good luck with that)
2) Complain  ( ditto  )
3) Toss out your satellite / cable boxes /XP-MCE & Extenders, buy VISTA and just be happy with Tim's solution that allows recording the analog basic cable tier direct from the wall
4)  Spend a few bucks on CGMS-A filters, and you won't be bothered by this idiotic crap ever again
5) switch to ANY other PVR, since no other PVR software has this problem in Canada.

GREX  http://www.xdimax.com/grex/grex.html 

much like RandyG has stated, you've got lots of options


GBPVR

SageTV

the GREX he listed as well

Tim's laughable solution to allow us to record from basic cable! is just yet another insult from MS

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HTPC#1: MSI K8NGM2-FID, Athlon X2 3800+, 1gb kingston ram, Nvidia Dual Tuner, MCE 2005

HTPC#2: ASUS M2NBP-VM CSM, Athlon X2 3800+, 1gb kingston ram, Hauppauge 150MCE, MCE 2005

Tikker:

much like RandyG has stated, you've got lots of options


GBPVR

SageTV

the GREX he listed as well

Tim's laughable solution to allow us to record from basic cable! is just yet another insult from MS

I would add Snapstream Beyond TV to that list.  A good example of commercial pvr software that ignores the CGMS-A flag.  How do they get away with it but not MS?

I've used the Sima CT-200 and it works well with composite and s-video.  Haven't tried the GREX.  Is there a unit out there that works directly with analog cable feed rather that via a STB?

northman:

How do they get away with it but not MS?

Heh.  I promised. 

I'm curious about the CGMS-A strippers that Randy mentioned.  It's an academic curiosity at this point with the solution to my AMC and other occassional woes coming up, but who makes them and are there any side effects to image quality?  I used Google just to get an idea and it was just a lot of scattered mentions with no obvious leading products. I'm surprised they're not more widely used.  Or maybe people aren't talking about them that openly.