JonDeutsch:

PeterAlt:

Yes, exactly. Unfortunately, I'm stuck with an SA box and praying that one day Comcast will introduce the Motorola boxes in my area. But, you are in luck! You will also need a Microsoft IR receiver with included IR blaster to control your STB (or you can use firewire for that, but you have to get it working first with the IR blaster before you can replace it with firewire).

EDIT: Once you make all the connections, run MCE setup and tell it you have a STB. MCE should find the STB's clearQAM signal on whatever channel the STB uses to broadcast it over.

Hi Peter,

Thanks for the quick follow-up.  I tried to set things up this way, but I was unable to determine exactly which "input" the coax signal was coming through on.    I wonder how I can determine this?  Can anyone else advise?  This seems way too good to be true.    In fact, might it be?

Hear me out.  So, my Aver card supports Clear QAM, but I thought it only worked via its channel mapping application.  Is the channel mapping app only required because I'm using its built-in tuner and not an external tuner?

Any additional insights appreciated.  There are a few overlapping things here that I'd like to sort out, if only because it's such a pain in the a%@ to setup the clear QAM mapping.  The STB configuration would likely wipe out all the mapping I've done to-date.

Thanks again,
Jon

Jon, first let me pass on the following link that may help you...

http://iandixon.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!36983156CAA83EA9!2551.entry?wa=wsignin1.0

Next, since I do not have access to a Moto box to test, I have never seen this technique in action, but I understand the mechanics of it.

Since the Avermedia card has two coax inputs, one for DTV and one for NTSC, you would use the DTV input.

MCE does do QAM right now without special drivers, but this QAM capability was designed to work only with the availability of a Cable Card, which is how this technique works. When it sees your STB getting through to MCE decrypted digitally, it sees it if it were a digital Cable Card tuner and treats it as so, since MCE is already capable of handling this.

Hope this helps. Please let us know when you have it working!

Ah!  I've seen this link before.  This was discussed back in November in this thread:  http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/thread/227000.aspx .  Unfortunately, no one else ever duplicated it.  And, according to Chris (last post) it turned out to be 480p, not 720p or 1080i.

ssterb1:

Ah!  I've seen this link before.  This was discussed back in November in this thread:  http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/thread/227000.aspx .  Unfortunately, no one else ever duplicated it.  And, according to Chris (last post) it turned out to be 480p, not 720p or 1080i.

Hmmm.... one would think that this would have been repeatable, and now widely used as the ultimate back-door hack to get real HD on WMC.    I might give it another "go" tonight to see what happens, but it sounds like (if it were to work) that WMC would actually acknowledge in the prompts that this is a QAM (or digital cable) signal, so I should know pretty quickly if it's reading something special or not, correct?

In other words, the tuner setup prompts should clearly indicate something "different" than a normal set-top box setup.   Also, one more question -- I've already installed the beta/QAM drivers for the Aver card..but these drivers are designed for clear QAM directly over cable, not via STB.   I don't think Aver removed anything from the base-level drivers, but if I'm to understand this correctly, the "QAM" that would be used by this "hack" would be WMC's built-in QAM support for DCTs, not Aver's proprietary QAM drivers for direct-cable-connect tuning.   Correct?

We're so in the weeds here...

Jon

JonDeutsch:

ssterb1:

Ah!  I've seen this link before.  This was discussed back in November in this thread:  http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/thread/227000.aspx .  Unfortunately, no one else ever duplicated it.  And, according to Chris (last post) it turned out to be 480p, not 720p or 1080i.

Hmmm.... one would think that this would have been repeatable, and now widely used as the ultimate back-door hack to get real HD on WMC.    I might give it another "go" tonight to see what happens, but it sounds like (if it were to work) that WMC would actually acknowledge in the prompts that this is a QAM (or digital cable) signal, so I should know pretty quickly if it's reading something special or not, correct?

In other words, the tuner setup prompts should clearly indicate something "different" than a normal set-top box setup.   Also, one more question -- I've already installed the beta/QAM drivers for the Aver card..but these drivers are designed for clear QAM directly over cable, not via STB.   I don't think Aver removed anything from the base-level drivers, but if I'm to understand this correctly, the "QAM" that would be used by this "hack" would be WMC's built-in QAM support for DCTs, not Aver's proprietary QAM drivers for direct-cable-connect tuning.   Correct?

We're so in the weeds here...

Jon

Well, that's disappointing! But, let's not give up hope on the concept of QAM RF modulators on consumer electronics devices. All we need is any single CE device with HD digital cable subscription access to have RF digital QAM output to connect with a QAM-capable tuner card. And I've heard that the new Cable Card TiVo unit may have such a capability. I would hate to have to buy a TiVo box in order to get VMC working to my liking, but there nay be no other option. Is it worth it? Hmmmm 

Here's another possible (and INEXPENSIVE) solution...

http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=7885&Itemid=61

In addition to this K-World tuner, Hauppauge has a rather expensive external tuner that accepts component video inputs for analog HD capture. With these two products out on the market, it's just a matter of time before the floodgates come down on component video input capture-enabled products!

I bought the Hauppauge HD-PVR a couple months ago when it first came out.  It works great - the image quality was better than expected and I can't tell the difference between a recorded HD show and the original input from the cable box (when set at the highest quality).  Only problem is that it's not compatible with Vista Media Center.  Hauppauge initially thought that it would be VMC compatible by this summer, but now they're not even sure if it ever will be.  I wonder what codec the K-World device uses.  The HD-PVR uses h.264, which is probably the biggest reason it's not compatible with VMC.  If the K-World device uses mpeg, chances are that it could be compatible. 

Anyone can setup a simple test here.  Those with a Moto Box, plug the RF out to your DTV in on your tuner card.  Bring up the native software (not VMC) for your tuner card.  Tune to a channel on the moto, then do a channel search using the native software for your tuner card.

With Luck, you'll find what channel the moto is broadcasting on.  Then change through channels on your moto and see what happens for normal, premium and OD/PPV channels.

Lastly, let us know your results! :)

None of this is possible in MCE. Has anyone been successful yet?

So, let me re-ask the question:

If, somehow, my QAM tuner "picks up" a QAM signal from the RF output of my Moto DCT3416, will WMC "sense" this as a "cable-card-style-QAM-signal" and give me specific prompts to give me full QAM guide support?   That is, without having to have to do the manual mapping I need to do with Aver's custom QAM solution?

I just don't see how this combination will somehow "enable" VMC's dormant QAM support for DCTs. 

Thansk,
Jon

JonDeutsch:

I just don't see how this combination will somehow "enable" VMC's dormant QAM support for DCTs. 

I still think we need to look at this in two parts.  Before delving into the VMC side of this, lets figure out the the Moto side FIRST.  If that part pans out, then deal with the VMC side.  The situation is too complex and there are too many variables to try it all at once.

The first part, as I mentioned above, it to use the native software with your tuner (for me, I'd use the HDHomeRun GUI Manager and VLC) to see if the QAM truely is being sent by the Moto STB.  If we can't get that part working/verified, the rest with VMC is pointless to spend time on.

Now that I have DCTs, I've returned my Moto STB.  If someone else can't test this first part, I'll go grab one from Comcast for a couple days and give it a try.

daler:

The first part, as I mentioned above, it to use the native software with your tuner (for me, I'd use the HDHomeRun GUI Manager and VLC) to see if the QAM truely is being sent by the Moto STB.  If we can't get that part working/verified, the rest with VMC is pointless to spend time on.

Now that I have DCTs, I've returned my Moto STB.  If someone else can't test this first part, I'll go grab one from Comcast for a couple days and give it a try.

Back in December, I tried something similar.  I connected my Motorola DCH-3200's RF out to my "cable in" RF on my HD Sony 1080p TV (which picks up clear QAM very successfully when connected straight from the wall).  With the stb on ESPNHD, I scaned for both analog and digital channels, and all I got was the downgraded picture (to 480i) of ESPNHD on analog channel 3.

I haven't tried connecting to the HDHomeRun directly because it's in a different room in the house (being a network tuner and all) and what I tried with just the stb and my TV.  Not to mention the lengthy thread on this subject which I linked to in my post above.

That being said, if someone else tries and is successful (using a non-FIOS stb), I will gladly and humbly bow down to their greatness, for they have shown us the way to HD Media Center paradise.

ssterb1:

Back in December, I tried something similar.  I connected my Motorola DCH-3200's RF out to my "cable in" RF on my HD Sony 1080p TV (which picks up clear QAM very successfully when connected straight from the wall).  With the stb on ESPNHD, I scaned for both analog and digital channels, and all I got was the downgraded picture (to 480i) of ESPNHD on analog channel 3.

Y'know... sometimes the simplest things are right in front of you.  I think testing the QAM output of my DCT3416 on my Sony XSRD (which receives clearQAM) will be much easier than installing Aver's software and testing on that.  I think that's an easy test, and, like you said, the TV will tell me the quality of the signal being picked up.   My QAM tuner on my Sony should behave the same was as my Aver card (in theory).  Correct?

Jon

Quick update:  I connected the RF out from my Moto DCT3416 into the RF in of my Sony 60A3000 TV, and had it scan for "digital channels" (i.e., clear QAM), and it found 0 channels.

Sorry - doesn't look like a "go" from this vantage point.

Jon

JonDeutsch:

Quick update:  I connected the RF out from my Moto DCT3416 into the RF in of my Sony 60A3000 TV, and had it scan for "digital channels" (i.e., clear QAM), and it found 0 channels.

Sorry - doesn't look like a "go" from this vantage point.

Jon

Maybe this capability is dependent on which model STB you have. Or maybe somehow it needs to be set or programmed in order to enable digital RF output?

But getting back to the subject at hand....

Today I successfully recorded, copied to another machine, and played back a half-hour 1080i program I recorded using firewire that aired on Animal Planet. The quality was almost perfect, but the picture would break apart every few minutes or so (don't know why). I achieved this without Tim Moore's drivers (which I have never been able to successfully use to record). I used VLAN Player for both the recording and playback. The TV show was recorded from playback of a recorded program taken from my SA8300HD DVR. It was recorded in .TS format.

Can someone recommend a good program to convert .TS format to DVR-MS so I can next import these recordings into Media Center?

Try TSConverter to convert to dvr-ms.

http://www.softpedia.com/get/Multimedia/Video/Encoders-Converter-DIVX-Related/TSConverter.shtml

Once converted try EditDvrmsMetadata to so it will display as you would like in recorded tv.

http://blogs.msdn.com/toub/archive/2005/05/12/416874.aspx