HT Slider:

...How about simply pausing recording while CGMS-A copy never flags are set and continuing once the flag turns off again (and stopping recording all together after about 15 minutes)?  Every single time I've examined the timing of CGMS-A flags, they have all occurred during or between commercials.

I thought  that's more of the US case, where "Dukes of Hazzard" commercials would blow the whole show, which wasn't flagged ( since there are FCC regulations there) ?

While I was building the gizmos, monitoring such quality programming as reruns of "REBA" and 10 year old "Winnie the Poo"   and unknown age "Toopy and Beenu".... and some better stuff as Movie Central movies and Stargate etc   was that the CGMS-A flag was continuous 1,1 throughout the entire show...  (Edmonton AB Shaw Cable) ?   I was using a TV line counter trigging a digital storage scope, so I have no doubt whatsover that I was looking at was 1,1 copy never.

Really - the fix is crap.... MCE2005 has no fix.... there is no fix.   There will be no fix.

Other poster(s):

As for calling them stupid.... geez.   They are not stupid.   Far from it.  You don't get to be a Microft program manager by being stupid.   They know damn well it's a crappy fix that applies to NOBODY.   99.9% of the issues are on the digital channels, with people with cable boxes.

However, by proudly postly that this IS the FIX that we have been waiting over a year for, and thinking Canadians will all now jump up, upgrade to VISTA, throw away our cable boxes and rejoice...

They very obviously think that WE ARE STUPID.

I've been an avid poster on this thread - but really - this takes the cake, and I've had it.

RandyG:

Other poster(s):

They very obviously think that WE ARE STUPID.

I've been an avid poster on this thread - but really - this takes the cake, and I've had it.

couldn't agree with you more, randy. I think it's obvious that our only course of action left is to sue and try to recover some of the $ we were ripped off for.

RandyG:

HT Slider:

...How about simply pausing recording while CGMS-A copy never flags are set and continuing once the flag turns off again (and stopping recording all together after about 15 minutes)?  Every single time I've examined the timing of CGMS-A flags, they have all occurred during or between commercials.

I thought  that's more of the US case, where "Dukes of Hazzard" commercials would blow the whole show, which wasn't flagged ( since there are FCC regulations there) ?

While I was building the gizmos, monitoring such quality programming as reruns of "REBA" and 10 year old "Winnie the Poo"   and unknown age "Toopy and Beenu".... and some better stuff as Movie Central movies and Stargate etc   was that the CGMS-A flag was continuous 1,1 throughout the entire show...  (Edmonton AB Shaw Cable) ?   I was using a TV line counter trigging a digital storage scope, so I have no doubt whatsover that I was looking at was 1,1 copy never.

Really - the fix is crap.... MCE2005 has no fix.... there is no fix.   There will be no fix.

Sounds like that one wouldn't work then.  We're using ExpressVu and out of several 1000's of failed recordings I have only really examined something like 5 (all of these stopped recording and deleted the show during a commercial)..

The only 100% solution is turning off CGMS-A detection for Canadians.  If Microsoft can lock Canadians out of Internet TV to make sure we can't watch any of it, they can certainly use the same technique to disable CGMS-A detection for Canadians.

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STB w/R5000HD USB I/O, Gigabyte GA-P35-DS4, Quad Q6600, 4.0 GB RAM, ATI HD 3870 512MB, Ultra XVS 600W PSU, 3x SATA 500GB, 2x SATA 300GB, LG GGC-H20L, PVR-250, Toshiba 51H83 (51" HDTV), Yamaha RX-V2400 Amp, 5x Energy Speakers, SVS Sub, Harmony 880 Remote

I want to point out again that Media Center is not setting the CGMS-A flags in the broadcasts.  Media Center does respect the CGMS-A standard, including the CGMS-A flags that content providers set.  It is not appropriate for Media Center to make a judgment on whether the flag is appropriately set or not. 

The solution we are providing for Vista is intended to provide relief on the scenario where we know premium content is not in play - configurations where there is no set top box.  I am also pursuing fix for XP MCE but the plans for this are not as far along as the Vista plans.

We are locked on our schedule for the next Media Center Cumulative Update and will proceed with plans on including the current solution in that update - again provided there are no unforeseen hurdles that delay the release.  I will continue to keep track of this situation and continue to explore options for both Vista and XP MCE that meet customer, business and technical considerations.

- Tim

 

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Tim Schreck
Media Center SE

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

Tim the problem is the main issue is in Canada where their are no rules or regulations against what CGMS-A can or should be set on.  This has lead to broadcasters setting RecordNever to everything, premium or not, and thus anyone in Canada with a set-top can't record even 10-year reruns of crap shows.  There is no regulation against it, there is no FCC to deal with.  They set it and they don't care because their PVRs don't respect it.

If the only fix Microsoft is providing is with analog without a set-top box then just stop wasting development time and forget about releasing any fix.  Your not addressing the issue with it.

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Chris Lanier
The Green Button Forum Moderator

Microsoft needs to realize CableCARD isn't supported in Canada, and if you are not willing to fix underlaying issues then you are getting millions from the potential market.  CableCARD isn't supported, Microsoft doesn't support ATSC in Canada, and now Microsoft will not fix CGMS-A for a coutry in which it doesn't exist to the broadcast indutry and regulatatory bodies.

What type of TV signal do you suggest these 33 million people use??

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Chris Lanier
The Green Button Forum Moderator

Chris - Moderator:

What type of TV signal do you suggest these 33 million people use??

"Any signal connected to a PC running SageTV or BeyondTV" would be the answer he is implying.

I agree that Tim doesn't get it, nor does he appear to be carefully reading this forum.  I have scanned every post that comes into my email box, and I have never seen anyone who has suggested that Microsoft is setting the CGMS-A flag.  In fact, the participants in this post seem very well versed on the CGMS-A flag and its ramifications.

 

I will say, however, that those calling for a class action suit may not be as well versed in the Law.  For a claim against MS, at least here in the States, you're going to have to be able to point to a willful misrepresentation by Microsoft.  You're not going to get anywhere on a defective consumer product claim unless, in addition to not being able to watch Dukes of Hazard, the presence of the CGMS-A flag caused the computer running Microsoft's product to shoot out bolts of lightening, which at least singed your eyebrows.

 

Of course, those crazy Canadians may have some additional tricks up their sleeves ;)

 

WRK

TimSchreck-MS:

I want to point out again that Media Center is not setting the CGMS-A flags in the broadcasts.  Media Center does respect the CGMS-A standard, including the CGMS-A flags that content providers set.  It is not appropriate for Media Center to make a judgment on whether the flag is appropriately set or not. 

Let's all collectively bang our heads repeatedly against a wall.  Hey Tim, heads-up, there is no CGMS-A standard in Canada.  Just ignore the flag in our country - simple as that. Okay?

kingwr:

...

You're not going to get anywhere on a defective consumer product claim unless, in addition to not being able to watch Dukes of Hazard, the presence of the CGMS-A flag caused the computer running Microsoft's product to shoot out bolts of lightening, which at least singed your eyebrows...

 

WRK

IANAL, but couldn't the raised blood pressure and additional stress caused by listening to your spouse/kids whine and moan about missing Dora, or American Idol, or whatever, cause MCE to be considered a product that endagers the health of the user? ;-)

Jerry

northman:

TimSchreck-MS:

I want to point out again that Media Center is not setting the CGMS-A flags in the broadcasts.  Media Center does respect the CGMS-A standard, including the CGMS-A flags that content providers set.  It is not appropriate for Media Center to make a judgment on whether the flag is appropriately set or not. 

Let's all collectively bang our heads repeatedly against a wall.  Hey Tim, heads-up, there is no CGMS-A standard in Canada.  Just ignore the flag in our country - simple as that. Okay?

Wouldn't it be nice if someone in our generation who was a smart as Bill Gates used to be, came out with a New OS that would conversely work with MS products but do BETTER than the ying yangs at M$?

Sure would be nice if some genius did that... I'd pay twice as much as I would have to for Vista, if I could get a reliable product without the Blue Screen of death, CGMS-A, and all the CRAP M$ drags it's users though.

No, Linux is not an acceptable solution, and No, Macintosh is the ultimate evil as far as I'm concerned.

I do want to put some intellectual honesty around one point, or at least allow someone else to clarify the issue for me.  If by "CGMS-A doesn't exist in Canada" you mean that respecting the flag is not required by your FCC or equivalent government regulatory bodies, then technically, CGMS-A doesn't exist in the United States either, at least by my understanding.  CGMS-A is a protocol embodied in video standards, which are adopted by international organizations such as the IEC (as well as U.S. only organizations like the CEA, EAI, and E-I-E-I-O.)  I don't think that there are any FCC mandates in the U.S. for respecting this flag.  Am I wrong?  I know there was a bill in the House, but it got sent over to the judicial committee in early 2006, and died there?

Therefore, any respecting of the CGMS-A flag was a choice by Microsoft, and was not mandated by any governmental body in any country.  So, while it may have been a short-sighted and non-consumer friendly decision on Microsoft's part to respect the flag (especially when it appears no one else made the same decision), it's not fair to say that Microsoft is somehow incorrect by respecting a flag because it doesn't "exist" in a particular country.  But straighten me out here if I am wrong.  For instance, do TiVo units targeted to the Canadian market not respect the CGMS-A flag while those targeted to the U.S. market do, or something like that?

WRK

kingwr:

Therefore, any respecting of the CGMS-A flag was a choice by Microsoft, and was not mandated by any governmental body in any country.  So, while it may have been a short-sighted and non-consumer friendly decision on Microsoft's part to respect the flag (especially when it appears no one else made the same decision), it's not fair to say that Microsoft is somehow incorrect by respecting a flag because it doesn't "exist" in a particular country. 

But are there not rules from the FCC that govern when CGMS-A can be turned on and off?  In Canada there are no such rules - it could be set as Copy Never for every episode of every show.

One more thing - to the several people on this thread blaming Vista for this problem - I don't think it has anything to do with Vista.  I am having this problem and my HTPC is running MCE 2005 - Vista has tighter DRM around some stuff but I believe that CMGS-A stuff was introduced with RU2 of MCE 2005.