Jason - I've got something for you to do for me, I'm going to take the request offline.

Everyone else who cares about this issue: I'm working it, with the help of the MVP Jason. :-)

---

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

JessZahn:

Anyway, with all the activity on this thread I've managed to get quite a few people's attention internally, and I can tell you we're looking deeper into the issue here. I still need a raw capture stream, but I'm working on ways to get it. So where exactly do I need to go in Canada? Toronto is a fun city, I could come visit. :-) (mostly kidding!)

Hi Jessica, that sounds promising!  Keep us posted :)

I would be happy to help in any way I can, but I'm not sure how to capture the stream.. Perhaps I could use graphedit somehow? I'm not sure of a way at the moment.

- Alex

Interesting... I tried recording the same show today on three different
computers (mix of OS/tuners but same tv channel source and channel and
show)...

Friends recorded successfully on all three computers today.

the plot thickens.

--
Jason Tsang - Microsoft MVP

Read my blog for the latest in Media Center topics
(and other topics that interest me)
http://jtsang.blogspot.com

More information by me
http://jtsang.mvps.org
http://www.classicsunveiled.com

Find out about the MS MVP Program -
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/default.aspx



wrote in message news:177865@10.240.6.244...
> JessZahn:
>
> Anyway, with all the activity on this thread I've managed to get quite a
> few people's attention internally, and I can tell you we're looking deeper
> into the issue here. I still need a raw capture stream, but I'm working on
> ways to get it. So where exactly do I need to go in Canada? Toronto is a
> fun city, I could come visit. :-) (mostly kidding!)
>
>
>
> Hi Jessica, that sounds promising! Keep us posted :)
>
> I would be happy to help in any way I can, but I'm not sure how to capture
> the stream.. Perhaps I could use graphedit somehow? I'm not sure of a way
> at the moment.
>
> - Alex
>

---

Jason Tsang - Media Center MVP
http://blog.jasontsang.ca

This is just an outside suggestion.  but it could narrow down the problem.  Try recording the same channel for 24 hours in 1 hour increments.  If shows stop at odd times (like 3 am Mash rerun) you will probably know its a glitch.

Cons to this idea
Lots of space required.

Pro narrowing down the issue.

Next
You can use a third party app to record off the tuner.  VLC is a good one, and its free although not easy to use.  I think I can come up with a way to record off it in 1 hour increments also.  If so and you had 2 tuners you could record with one on VLC the other on MCE and wait for it to happen again.

 

Ive been having something happen randomly which I have been passing off as a conflict with DVR-MS Toolbox.  I uninstalled it now and am waiting for it to happen again so I can see if this is what it is.

Just wanted to add a coment here. I have been though this before many times with MCE 2005 and Vista MCE (RC2 5744). I have a Media Center PC connected only to my TV, dedicated for watching tv. Tuner cards: Happ. 150MCE, 250MCE and a Aver. A180 HD card. None of these issues are with HD programing or HBO, local channels or some basic cable stations. I have cable tv with Comcast in CT, and with out a cable box (directly into the tuner cards)

I'll start with vista (and as I see here, it's still an issue). I did a clean install of Vista, setup programs, Nvidia codec (newest one as of now still), I could not watch AMC(live), it would just give a blue screen stating "copy protection". Any shows off NBC would record about 10 to 25 min and say restricted content in the event log. I could not even watch Live news broadcasts on 2 channels because of the screen going blue and showing restricted content.

Now, MCE 2005. All the problems start with Rollup 2 (the fix for rollup 2 does not fix these issues). After rollup 2, NBC shows don't record (or get 20-25 min of the show before stopping). Can't watch live NBC news (off 2 of my local NBC networks). There is a few other programs on other channels that gave the same problem. I have called the network and they state there is no protection accept for never copy on some programs (so they still should record fine, as long as I don't watch them on another computer)

I am running MCE 2005 for a reason. I have tried rollup 2, 2-3 times (I have rebilt this machine 4-5 times over the last 2-3 years), and with the same result. So my Media Center does not have UR2 on it, and it all seems to work fine, No problems watching tv or recording channels. I would like to go to Vista (as I really like the interface) but, what is the point if it does not work ?

I really will watch this chat, As people next door have a PVR though the cable company and have NEVER seen any of these type of issues. This should be a number one thing for Microsoft to work on for the Media Center to make it worth a Home Theater PC.

Please private message me if you would like more detail.

---

-Dave

MCP, MCSA, MCSE 2003
Windows Vista Connected Exp:Home Theater for Technologists
Windows Vista Connected Exp:Home Theater for Sales professionals

Home theater specialist (10+ years)

Hi scuffs,

 

I did try to record the same show using another application which did not record in media center due to the protected content message.  The program which I used, which is free and also looks like media center, is called media portal (http://www.team-mediaportal.com/).  Media portal was able to record the show which media center was not.

 

I would appreciate to hear if others try media portal and get similar results when compared with media center.  I hope media center can sort out this problem especially since a free open source application can.  I much prefer the smoothness and the way that media center is incorporated into the operating system but it becomes useless when it cannot perform the fundamental task of time shifting TV programming.

 

Maybe Microsoft can solve their problem by looking at media portal.

I'll acknowledge that it's *possible* - but not definite - there's a problem with software. But you can't compare Media Center to a PVR device. A PVR device is usually a closed system - therefore, it may not respect CGMS-A, because the user can't do anything with it like you can in when it's recorded to a PC and can be copied, burned, etc.

And then, when you compare MCE to a free PC software program, well, that software may not attract the industry attention Media Center would if it didn't respect CGMS-A. You all can debate all you like whether Microsoft is doing the right thing by including CGMS-A support in Media Center; the fact is, we do, and that isn't a bug.

But we're checking into what's going on here and will do what we determine is the right thing. Can't promise more.

---

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

JessZahn:

I'll acknowledge that it's *possible* - but not definite - there's a problem with software. But you can't compare Media Center to a PVR device. A PVR device is usually a closed system - therefore, it may not respect CGMS-A, because the user can't do anything with it like you can in when it's recorded to a PC and can be copied, burned, etc.

<snip>

But we're checking into what's going on here and will do what we determine is the right thing. Can't promise more.

Hi Jessica,

As Media Center to become a *true* Home Theater PC, it should perform as good if not better than the junky PVR boxes you can get from the cable company. I agree that there is guide lines that Microsoft needs to follow as a multi-billon dollar company and it will get attacked by every other company out there if it does not follow these guide lines but, under my uses it *is* a software issue and I am not the only one having these types of issues.

I have to ask, if this is a feature when I stated that is it causing the problem with a flag that is there but, detecting it as the wrong flag, wouldn't it be a problem with the software ? This is a computer that has been rebuit a few times and tried it again with the same results. So, I am not basing it on one case.

The industry experts have said the PC is not ready for the Home Theater market, if these issues like this keep showing up, I would have to agree with them. What is the point of a true Media Center if it cant do what it states to do ? (software error or not) There should be a medium here where it's a feature vs. a problem, and this is a problem.

If "Joe Six pack" picked up a Media Center PC and after about 2 weeks (about the time I lasted with Vista) found all these issues, it would be returned to the store and he/she would grab a PVR from the cable company.

Just my thoughts and thanks for seeing what you can do here !!!

-Dave

---

-Dave

MCP, MCSA, MCSE 2003
Windows Vista Connected Exp:Home Theater for Technologists
Windows Vista Connected Exp:Home Theater for Sales professionals

Home theater specialist (10+ years)

For the first time today microsoft or Direct TV is blocking something!!!! Direct TV lets me whatch every channel except for the IFC channel. Independant movie channel.!!! This is such bull. Does anybody else have this limitation with premium channels like HBO Cenemax ect....????? it's a regular sattelte tv signal connected over composite cables to my tuner card. I thought those signals don't carry DRM so it must be in the downloaded Guide from microsoft that the permissions are restricted.!!!!

It let me watch I love huckabees for like 10 seconds then audio and video dissapear and i get a blue stating that it's restricted content!!!

screenshot below:;

Says:

Restrictions set by the brodcaster or origniator of the content prohibit playback of the program on this computer.

http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/7656/bugnm9.jpg

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Vista Home Prem
AMD X2 3800+ @2.4ghz
Asus A8n-sli deluxe
Nvidia 8800gts
2gb Corsair RAM- 34 gb raptor--160 gb maxtor
535W Enermax-Zalman7000balcu-
Antec 900

It looks like CGMS-A is being abused/ignored so that the cable provider can push their boxes, thats what I see this as.  I wonder how many DVRs my cable provider would sell if their own boxes honored CGMS-A.... 
It boils down to these faithful questions.
Who governs our ability to timeshift content; shouldnt it be a consumer ability?
Why do we have to be in our homes at the governed time to watch programing?  
Is it so unfair that if we have a job and can't be home to watch our favorite show and be prevented from watching it later?
Its getting me to boil...

Thats nasty; its getting to the point were we can't even WATCH protected content let alone record it.  I usually want legislation to stay out of the way of the tech industry but something HAS to be done about this.

thezigpc:

Its getting me to boil...

Is this just starting for you ? I have been over the boiling point with CGMS-A and Microsoft with this issue well over a year or 2 now....

I agree 100% with your post....

---

-Dave

MCP, MCSA, MCSE 2003
Windows Vista Connected Exp:Home Theater for Technologists
Windows Vista Connected Exp:Home Theater for Sales professionals

Home theater specialist (10+ years)

Clear-cut we need a fair-use legislation thet preserves our ability to timeshift content; even if they argue that the old ruling only pertained to analog content....   we at least need the right to time-shift that.

I know lots of smart people are looking into this-but has anyone looked at the problem with the DRM store being corrupted?  This was a common problem at different times (it bit me after upgrading my MCE '05 box to WMP 11).  There is a process you go through to rebuild the DRM store (whatever that is).  Can't rmemember where I found the procedure, but there was an MS utility you had to download and run, and a knowlegebase article.

My issue was that HBO analog suddenly became weird, would record/allow viewing for about a minute, then give the restricted content screen.

Just a thought.

JessZahn:

A PVR device is usually a closed system - therefore, it may not respect CGMS-A, because the user can't do anything with it like you can in when it's recorded to a PC and can be copied, burned, etc.

The point is that if the cable company's PVR allows for time-shifting, then Vista should allow for time-shifting. The problem the content providers have, I assume, is not time-shifting, but people making recordings and then putting them on BitTorrent, USENET, etc.

That could be eliminiated or reduced by encrypting recordings that come in with CGMS-A, or watermarking them with the user's IP address, etc. That will deter 99% of the users from doing it. The really determined 1% will be using one of the free software programs instead of Vista anyway.