I've tried everything including ssterb1's method but I still can not get my tuner to show up in the drop down box in mytray. Can someone please provide details on how to enable the debug option? I'm not real familiar with registry changes. It was alluded to as:

"If you read Tim's FAQ he mentions a debug option but he doesn't say how to set it.  I added a double word value in the same location that he mentions that you can turn off fire wire channel change with the setting "EnableChannelChange".  I called the double word "Debug" and set it to 1. 
I restarted my tray and opened it.  Now I had options under tuner1. "

donod:

I've tried everything including ssterb1's method but I still can not get my tuner to show up in the drop down box in mytray. Can someone please provide details on how to enable the debug option? I'm not real familiar with registry changes. It was alluded to as:

"If you read Tim's FAQ he mentions a debug option but he doesn't say how to set it.  I added a double word value in the same location that he mentions that you can turn off fire wire channel change with the setting "EnableChannelChange".  I called the double word "Debug" and set it to 1. 
I restarted my tray and opened it.  Now I had options under tuner1. "

 

Its pretty straight forward as you list.  I guess if you have played with the Registry, it can be a confusing thing, though.

1. Start, Run, type in regedit and hit enter. For Vista, just type regedit in the start, search and hit enter.

2. In Regedit, Expand HKEY_LOCAL_Machine, Software, TimMoore

3. Click on MCETray in the left window.

4. Right Click in the right window and Select New DWORD.

5. Set the Name to Debug and hit enter.

6. Double Click on Debug and it will allow you to edit the Value data.  Set it to 1 and click OK.

7. Clock MCETray and Restart it.

I had to perform this to get my Comcast 6412 to work with MCE Tray.  Except that every once in a a while the systems seem to get out of sync on the firewire, I've recorded like 40 HD shows in the last week using it.

Has anybody looked into this.... http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/thread/253414.aspx

It sounds very, very promising. I ordered 2 Hauppauge HD-PVR's but I may cancell them if this works. My cable co uses very little 5C (couple premium HD cannels only)

I mean this would be live tv over firewire in VMC or MCE 2005. I cant believe there has not been more buzzz about this.

There has to be someone out there who is interested in this besides just me. Alot cheaper than the $250 for a Hauppauge HD-PVR and theres not digital to anologe to digital converstion to boot. And no waiting for fuji to use it like the Hauppauge HD-PVR's (which as Chris pointed out may never come)

Come on people... sounds like DVBS bridge has done most of the work for us! We just need a clever guy to push this the last inch or two 

I have to agree with soul_staker.  I can't believe there isn't a ton of buzz regarding this new virtual TV tuner driver that DVBSBridge has created for us to try out.

The best thing is since it works as a true TV Tuner, it would allow access to Live TV as well as no delays or confusion (WAF) while switching from SD to HD recordings.

It would also simplify scanning for commercials and clean up a number of issues with FireSTB.

The only issues I have are I don't have much in the way of development skils to put the last few pieces together, and most importantly I can't actually use Firewire to record (we don't get cable and our STB has a USB R5000HD output - that is supported by FireSTB, but not DVBSBridge - unless I'm mistaken).

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STB w/R5000HD USB I/O, Gigabyte GA-P35-DS4, Quad Q6600, 4.0 GB RAM, ATI HD 3870 512MB, Ultra XVS 600W PSU, 3x SATA 500GB, 2x SATA 300GB, LG GGC-H20L, PVR-250, Toshiba 51H83 (51" HDTV), Yamaha RX-V2400 Amp, 5x Energy Speakers, SVS Sub, Harmony 880 Remote

Hmmm.... why is there not a lot of interest in this direction for Media Center??   Does this thread need to be pushed into another area and other forums?  What needs to be done to get some traction? 

I would love to see this working as my 8300HDC is not supported by FireSTB.  This virtual tuner, if it works anything like HDHomerun, will be ideal.  I for one would gladly pay $50 or more for support for my 8300HDC via this driver. 

HT Slider:

.... and most importantly I can't actually use Firewire to record (we don't get cable and our STB has a USB R5000HD output - that is supported by FireSTB, but not DVBSBridge - unless I'm mistaken).

Actually, The way I understand it DVBSBridge would allow streaming and recording from ANY .ts stream and would work with any box that works with FireSTB. So Slider your set up would be the best possible set-up. If your using a R5000HD then this would be even better then cablecard in the US.

You have no 5C issues (assuming your on bell or star satilite, they dont use 5C), and you would get a pure digital signal on all SD and HD channels you subscribe to for both live and recorded tv... with NO drm issues (unlike cable card and the new Direct TV tuner) and you could add multiple R5000's without having to add a physical capture card to go with it.

Pretty much the absolute holy grail... nothing could come close.... and it could never be improved on... you would have the fullest and most complete solution

soul_staker:

Pretty much the absolute holy grail... nothing could come close.... and it could never be improved on... you would have the fullest and most complete solution

OK, so this is the holy grail.  Where is the interest in making this happen??  And isn't it a bit concerning that it requires FireSTB when it's an outdated, unsupported application?

Shouldn't someone feel the entrepreneurial interest to take on the whole thing and just do it right?  Probably get bought up my MSFT in the process to either shut down the effort or integrate it into Fiji. :)

If we need to develop a VC fund to kick this off, I can setup a PayPal "Angel Investor" account that would go toward the development team's efforts...

Jon

JonDeutsch:

OK, so this is the holy grail.  Where is the interest in making this happen??  And isn't it a bit concerning that it requires FireSTB when it's an outdated, unsupported application?

Are you sure it requires FireSTB?

My understanding was that it does not require FireSTB at all and it works as a virtual TV Tuner driver.

The challenge for us R5000HD owners is that this particular virtual tuner driver was written specifically for Firewire.

soul_staker, I spoke with the guy who wrote DVBSBridge some time ago and it was not going to support the R5000HD (unless I'm not aware of a major change).  The problem with the R5000HD is it uses a custom USB protocol combined with a custom driver.  The hooks to interface with the driver are not openly published so only the R5000HD software or Sage TV can interface with it.  FireSTB gets around this by using the R5000HD DVR software through the command line.  After a recording has been produced by the R5000HD DVR, FireSTB then converts it into a dvr-ms file and replaces the original SD dvr-ms recording.

Unless Nextcom was to release details regarding their R5000HD driver, there is no way to directly access the R5000HD and therefore no way to use DVBSBridge as a virtual tuner with it.

There were negotiations going on between the guys writing DVBSBridge and the guys manufacturing the R5000HD, with the intent for a virtual tuner driver to be written specifically to support the R5000HD within Media Center.  Unfortunately my understanding is for one reason or another this fell through.  I've been told that Nextcom is still interested in developing a driver for Media Center, but this isn't an easy task due to the lack of generic tuner support within Media Center (DVBSBridge gets around this using unsupported techniques - unsupported by MS I mean).

I think the biggest issue hurting the interest in DVBSBridge using Firewire is the fact that most US STBs have recently started to use 5C content protection on Firewire ports.  Essentially in the US, this creates a situation where it makes more sense to purchase a CableCard Media Center rather than use Firewire and only record a small selection of channels.

For us Canadians, this is a similar story.  Until recently the Firewire ports on many of our STBs output unprotected video and this made the Firewire route an excellent option for bringing HD content into Media Center.  Unfortunately over the past year, one by one, many of the cable companies have been turning on 5C protection on channels with our STBs.  There may be some still providing unprotected Firewire output, but chances are the remaining ones will eventually end up 5C protected also.

Ultimately the best solution for Firewire for Canada and even the US (if you don't want to purchase a CableCard PC) would be if a 5C compliant Firewire driver was developed for Media Center.

I've pushed this quite hard both on the forums, through communication with Microsoft, and even got some programmers looking into the task.  These guys actually developed some of the code for other 5C protection protocols (DTCP-IP) so they knew what was required.  Ultimately the plan fell through largely since Microsoft doesn't have the proper hooks in Media Center to support a generic HD Firewire tuner (it needs to be hacked in) and inquiries by us to Microsoft regarding the lack of support went unanswered.  The other issue is there are both significant licensing fees as well as significant certification costs in order to make use of 5C protection in a driver.  Ultimately we gave up.  Maybe one day Microsoft will pick this up and produce a 5C compliant Firewire driver, but unless they hear about a lot of demand it definitely is not going to happen.

Personally I am quite disappointed with the whole situation and how MS didn't take advantage of Firewire/5C.  If they had, us Canadians would most likely be watching HD content with Media Center without resorting to unsupported 3rd party applications or hacked virtual tuners.

Still there are some Canadians who are lucky enough to be with a provider that allows unprotected Firewire video.  For those few, the DVBSBridge virtual Firewire tuner should be the ideal way to get HD content into Media Center.

The only solution that really works reasonably reliably for all Canadians is to purchase an STB with an R5000HD USB port and make use of FireSTB to interface with the R5000HD DVR software.  This is how we get our HD content.  It isn't cheap, isn't easy to set up and is a little tempermental - but once it is working, it does work well and does provide incredible quality HD content.  We currently have something like 100 HD recordings (and have probably recorded a good 400 hours of HD so far if you include the news that is recorded in 1080i every day - even if we don't watch it every day) and these days approximately 80% of our Media Center use is with HD content.  The truly ultimate setup, if you want reliability, is to also switch to Sage TV since Nextcom sells a native Sage TV driver specifically for the R5000HD - and it is easier to set up, isn't as temperamental and should record with 100% reliability.

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STB w/R5000HD USB I/O, Gigabyte GA-P35-DS4, Quad Q6600, 4.0 GB RAM, ATI HD 3870 512MB, Ultra XVS 600W PSU, 3x SATA 500GB, 2x SATA 300GB, LG GGC-H20L, PVR-250, Toshiba 51H83 (51" HDTV), Yamaha RX-V2400 Amp, 5x Energy Speakers, SVS Sub, Harmony 880 Remote

HT SLIDER: Your post should be a sticky as it is a very complete and up-to-date explanation of the current status of firestb and all related 5C issues

Im not sure how long ago you spoke with the guy who wrote DVBSBridge but recently (march 29th) DVBS bridge released a SDK  of their application,,,,, quote

"Targeted at companies as well as skilled C++ individuals the DVBSBridge SDK will provide them with the unique opportunity to bring digital streaming signal from their devices to Windows Media Center. Cable boxes, settop boxes, IPTV sources - everything that produces transport stream-like signal and can switch channels can be natively integrated into MCE. DVBSBridge SDK comes with set of C++ header files, library, documentation and sample code - everything you need to start development of DVBSBridge compatible source plugins. "

So if I understand this correctly, this app is ready to grab any .TS stream. Even if your R5000 uses a unique driver, USB or Firewire to deliver the stream seems irrelevant. As long as the stream is there... this app SHOULD be able to grab it and pump it into MCE.

And if I'm wrong then what about this possible senerio... If Firestb itself delivered the stream to DVBS BRIDGE... then the original source of the .TS stream should not matter (ie a stb, a  r5000, a donkey wearing a hat) as long as firestb could grab the stream from the R5000( which it currently can)

Seriously... I could be way off on this and I am not trying to argue... HT you seem far more knowledgeable than myself in relation to this ... I thought that maybey you have not yet seen the SDK version recently released which seems adaptable to any box and/or .TS stream

I guess my next point is sort of a matter of "Who" and Where" you happen to be. I live in Vancouver on Shaw cable and they only use 5C on a few very premium HD channels... all the rest, including all major network HD and HD timeshifting are not 5C. I agree that this is not the case for most ( I used to live in Ottawa on Rogers cable who 5C almost everything) . But for now (until shaw does 5C)... a simple app is better than a $250 anologue only HD capture device vs pure digital fun!. And IF I'm right about the SDK it would be incredible for you and all other R5000 and regular firestb users.

My last point is... lets say ther are various possible scenarios firestb users could find themselves in 

1. Lots or all channels 5C encryption.... in this case the HD PVR, if ever supported, is definitly the best choice.

Cost - $250 per HD-PVER tuner device (Plus the price of one set top box per tuner... in my case each box is about $500) Total est. $750 per tuner ( You may already have the set top boxes)

2. R5000 owner... there is no 5C encryption for you so every channel, in all its pure digital HD glory is available to you for recording.... no DRM, no nothing...  (even available pure , unadulterated HD Live TV  if DVBS BRIDGE or some other way is worked out) My god HT ...I would order satilite just for this possibility.... if it could be done

Cost - $400 per R5000, and im guessing the pre-modified boxes cost about $400 ???.... Total est. $800 per tuner ( if you already have a R5000 modified box then there is nothing to spend)

3. FireSTB user with some 5C encryption. If your using FireSTB now and would be very happy with receiving all the same content you recive now, only available in recordings AND live TV then DVBS BRIDGE may provide that.

Cost - No extra hardware needed, just the set top box your using now plus the price of DVBS bridge (not sure what it costs... prob about $70???) Total est. About $70

In the end this will provide a far superior experience compared to the HD-PVR and costs around $70 total (I'm guessing about price) for current FireSTB users. Lets face it... if the people reading this thread did had big 5C issues they wouldnt be using firestb. I guess what it boills down to is that this product will work the same as firestb but may unlock the possibility of live TV over firewire, 5C not withstanding

I guess the only way to know is to find someone who actually knows how to use the SDK..... which in it's self could be a challenge

My 2 pennies!!

 HT ... if you spoke  to the Obreon before the SDK release I would really suggest you speak to him again and clarify that the new SDK cannot be used to make an app that will grab the stream from the  R5000.

soul_staker:

"Targeted at companies as well as skilled C++ individuals the DVBSBridge SDK will provide them with the unique opportunity to bring digital streaming signal from their devices to Windows Media Center. Cable boxes, settop boxes, IPTV sources - everything that produces transport stream-like signal and can switch channels can be natively integrated into MCE. DVBSBridge SDK comes with set of C++ header files, library, documentation and sample code - everything you need to start development of DVBSBridge compatible source plugins. "

So if I understand this correctly, this app is ready to grab any .TS stream. Even if your R5000 uses a unique driver, USB or Firewire to deliver the stream seems irrelevant. As long as the stream is there... this app SHOULD be able to grab it and pump it into MCE.

And if I'm wrong then what about this possible senerio... If Firestb itself delivered the stream to DVBS BRIDGE... then the original source of the .TS stream should not matter (ie a stb, a  r5000, a donkey wearing a hat) as long as firestb could grab the stream from the R5000( which it currently can)

I haven't spoken to Obreon for a couple of months, but the issue with the R5000HD isn't DVBSBRidge.

The problem is there is no way that I am aware of for us to access the transport stream without the R5000HD DVR software.

The R5000HD driver does not behave as a standard tuner device and can't be accessed through standard methods.  Without documentation regarding how to access the transport stream I don't see how anyone could access the video without the R5000 DVR or Sage TV.

There are still two possibly solutions to enable the R5000HD to work with DVBSBridge:

1.  If Nextcom themselves decided to use the DVBSBridge virtual tuner and SDK to enable the R5000HD to work with Media Center.  Nextcom obviously knows how to interface with their USB driver so they are in the ideal position to do this.  They should be reasonably motivated to do this since doing so could potentially greatly increase the sales of the R5000HD (every single Media Center PC would be able to directly take advantage of the R5000HD).

2.  Someone with the right programming skills could possibly talk to Nextcom and convince them to provide information on how to access their driver and produce a turn key solution for the R5000HD with Media Center.

Since this would be a great addition to our HTPC, I'll talk to both Nextcom and Obreon.  Unfortunately I don't have the developments skills to put it together even if Nextcom was willing to provide documentation for their driver to me.

BTW, with our setup, Media Center has full access to HD content through FireSTB, except for Live TV.  We can still watch Live TV in HD, while Media Center is recording it, but we have to shrink or close Media Center and double click on the R5000HD DVR (FireSTB uses it to record the HD content on behalf of Media Center so it will be already running whenever recording).  While it is recording, we can watch the content using the R5000HD DVR and even pause and/or time shift it.  The only real downside is we have to pull out the keyboard and mouse since the R5000HD DVR is not designed to work with the Media Center remote control.  It is a little clunky, but it works.

If we really wanted to want to watch Live HD TV we can also use Media Center to watch Live TV and then again double click on the R5000HD DVR and click the view button.  Even though it is not recording, it will stream and display whatever channel Media Center is on to the display.  Changing channels in Media Center with the remote control does still work too and while Media Center is controlling the channel changes, the R5000HD DVR is displaying the content on the screen in HD.  Again a little clunky, but again it works (we've watched hockey games this way in the past and surfed channels during commercials - since it is Live TV).

If an R5000HD Media Center driver was developed using the DVBSBridge SDK, we'd have a truly complete Media Center setup though... (Live HD TV inside Media Center).

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STB w/R5000HD USB I/O, Gigabyte GA-P35-DS4, Quad Q6600, 4.0 GB RAM, ATI HD 3870 512MB, Ultra XVS 600W PSU, 3x SATA 500GB, 2x SATA 300GB, LG GGC-H20L, PVR-250, Toshiba 51H83 (51" HDTV), Yamaha RX-V2400 Amp, 5x Energy Speakers, SVS Sub, Harmony 880 Remote

I finally understand what your saying.....

I agree that nextcom is in the best position to get this on track, however dvbs-Bridge with the new sdk... and a good programmer might be able to make this work.

I guess all we can do is wait for the right people to step up. The potential is very big

 

Okay, I've finaly made some new progress in trying to get things working. First, let me state I am using an SA8300HD on a Comcast system that was previously Adelphia and I am running Vista Home Premium 32-bit. I've had no problem in the past getting Firewire channel changing to work. I just can't record (from firewire). In the past, I couldn't even get a program recorded inside the firewire folder. Now that I've installed DVBS Bridge, this is no longer a problem. But if I attempt to play a firewire recording, within Media Center I get a "Filetype Unsuppoted" error. I tried converting the firewire recording using AutoDVR Convert and it almost converts but towards the end it gets an error saying there's a pin missing or something to that effect. If this is relevant, I've never been able to see any streaming video over firewire (with my stb the only thing I have to test it with). Each time that I run any capturing program or video import program, errors occur.

If someone can tell me why I am getting the "filetype not supported" error, I would greatly greatly appreciate it. Thank you!

Did I understand correctly that you have fed the signal from Firewire to MCE via DVBSBridge SDK and recorded it to a file, but cannot play it via MCE?
If it is so I can help you with analyses of the stream.
We can also do it on our forum @ www.dvblogic.com not to hijack this topic with unneeded technical details.

PeterAlt:

Okay, I've finaly made some new progress in trying to get things working. First, let me state I am using an SA8300HD on a Comcast system that was previously Adelphia and I am running Vista Home Premium 32-bit. I've had no problem in the past getting Firewire channel changing to work. I just can't record (from firewire). In the past, I couldn't even get a program recorded inside the firewire folder. Now that I've installed DVBS Bridge, this is no longer a problem

Can you describe the steps and setup you have that facilitates getting the DVBS Bridge recording via Firewire from your SA8300HD STB? Are you using FireSTB or something custom?