hey jhale,
Thanks for the info, it is definitely much appreciated. I didn't respond yesterday because Dell was contacting me, and I'm going to give Dell a few more days while they attempt to resolve it. But here is an update of where I stand:

• I asked the sales person who sold me the tuner to escalate this problem to the resolution department if possible. Yesterday I received a call from someone within the department in "headquarters", they were calling in direct response to my request for escalation, but they had also read my blog, which I wrote after I made the escalation request.
• I received a second call yesterday from a different escalation department, this time not calling in direct response to a request, but instead because of the request of a Dell manager's that I had not worked with before. They had also read the blog. Judging by this and the referrer links on my blog, it seems as though my blog post has been emailed around a bit...
• In both cases, the representatives were not previously familiar with this issue, and neither are sure it is even possible to issue the product key. Obviously someone in Dell can do it as they issue them with new computers, but there is not process in place after the fact to do so. Hypothetically, as it stands now, even if I purchased it new with digital cable support and by chance it did not come with the product key affixed, Dell has no system in place to issue a new key short of returning the computer.

Overall, I am very confused on what exactly Dell's policy is with Digital Cable Support:

• The Direct2Dell blog says that digital cable support is "a base option on the system."
  
• If you try to buy a new XPS 420 from the home site, you cannot buy it without Digital Cable Support, even if you wanted to. (this is what I mostly based my decision to buy one form the Outlet on...)
  
• If you buy a XPS 420 from the business site, it does not come with digital cable support. (I learned this only recently after investigating the issue in depth.) Personally, I think this should cause a second product line, i.e. XPS 425, if the base options don't match.
• If you choose to add digital cable support to a business purchased computer that did not have it in the base configuration, it DOES NOT COST ANY ADDITIONAL MONEY!
  

Both Dell resolution experts have said they will personally investigate the issue, one I expect to hear more from today, the other will contact me on Sunday or Monday. After that I will either have a product key, or I will have to return this computer.

My only other question is, if I got my hands on a digital cable product key, any key, will it work? Or is there a limit to the number of activations like a regular windows vista key (assuming I used the key to activate only the tuner and not windows itself...)

Thanks again for your help and feedback!!

-Chris

http://lostincode.wordpress.com/2008/07/21/lost-in-dell-support-maze/

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ChrisCicc:

hey jhale,
Thanks for the info, it is definitely much appreciated. I didn't respond yesterday because Dell was contacting me, and I'm going to give Dell a few more days while they attempt to resolve it. But here is an update of where I stand:

• I asked the sales person who sold me the tuner to escalate this problem to the resolution department if possible. Yesterday I received a call from someone within the department in "headquarters", they were calling in direct response to my request for escalation, but they had also read my blog, which I wrote after I made the escalation request.
• I received a second call yesterday from a different escalation department, this time not calling in direct response to a request, but instead because of the request of a Dell manager's that I had not worked with before. They had also read the blog. Judging by this and the referrer links on my blog, it seems as though my blog post has been emailed around a bit...
• In both cases, the representatives were not previously familiar with this issue, and neither are sure it is even possible to issue the product key. Obviously someone in Dell can do it as they issue them with new computers, but there is not process in place after the fact to do so. Hypothetically, as it stands now, even if I purchased it new with digital cable support and by chance it did not come with the product key affixed, Dell has no system in place to issue a new key short of returning the computer.

Overall, I am very confused on what exactly Dell's policy is with Digital Cable Support:

• The Direct2Dell blog says that digital cable support is "a base option on the system."
  
• If you try to buy a new XPS 420 from the home site, you cannot buy it without Digital Cable Support, even if you wanted to. (this is what I mostly based my decision to buy one form the Outlet on...)
  
• If you buy a XPS 420 from the business site, it does not come with digital cable support. (I learned this only recently after investigating the issue in depth.) Personally, I think this should cause a second product line, i.e. XPS 425, if the base options don't match.
• If you choose to add digital cable support to a business purchased computer that did not have it in the base configuration, it DOES NOT COST ANY ADDITIONAL MONEY!
  

Both Dell resolution experts have said they will personally investigate the issue, one I expect to hear more from today, the other will contact me on Sunday or Monday. After that I will either have a product key, or I will have to return this computer.

My only other question is, if I got my hands on a digital cable product key, any key, will it work? Or is there a limit to the number of activations like a regular windows vista key (assuming I used the key to activate only the tuner and not windows itself...)

Thanks again for your help and feedback!!

-Chris

http://lostincode.wordpress.com/2008/07/21/lost-in-dell-support-maze/

I would go on the assumption that it is somehow tied to the Windows product key. I don't know for sure but I remember one time I installed Windows with the wrong CD (since I have multiple PCs and I didn't label the discs properly) and when I tried to use the product key on the PC it would activate. So somehow it was tied to the actual install disc I believe. This was on MCE 2005 though so that procedure may have changed.

I guess if you can somehow find a digital cable key (sounds pretty tough) then it would be worth a shot but I wouldn't get my hopes up too high! The thing that sucks about getting the wrong PC from the outlet is that it might take a while to find another one that is just like that one or better. Their pricing seems to be very inconsistent too. One day a PC could be $679 and you could find another one with the same specs the next day for $619.

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update from Dell:

I got the call I was expecting late this afternoon. For once I actually have hope this issue will be resolved. While this Resolution Specialist was not previously familiar with the issue, after our first call he literally spent the next several hours reading blogs and getting up to date, and when he called he actually had a pretty firm grasp of the technology and what the digital cable product key was for. What I was told is that that the key is issued with all new Dell Home XPS 420s, and only with new computers. Those that are returned, but were originally issued with the key, are scrubbed of digital cable support during the refurbishment process. (Lucky you jhale!!!) He also said there is no process within Dell to issue these keys other than purchasing them with a new computer, but he is going to talk to superiors to see what can be arranged.

He has agreed there is a discrepancy in what is advertised, considering that you cannot buy it new without digital cable support and it is then removed when refurbished, and what is actually available. I'll know more tomorrow, stay posted!

http://lostincode.wordpress.com/2008/07/21/lost-in-dell-support-maze/

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ChrisCicc:

update from Dell:

I got the call I was expecting late this afternoon. For once I actually have hope this issue will be resolved. While this Resolution Specialist was not previously familiar with the issue, after our first call he literally spent the next several hours reading blogs and getting up to date, and when he called he actually had a pretty firm grasp of the technology and what the digital cable product key was for. What I was told is that that the key is issued with all new Dell Home XPS 420s, and only with new computers. Those that are returned, but were originally issued with the key, are scrubbed of digital cable support during the refurbishment process. (Lucky you jhale!!!) He also said there is no process within Dell to issue these keys other than purchasing them with a new computer, but he is going to talk to superiors to see what can be arranged.

He has agreed there is a discrepancy in what is advertised, considering that you cannot buy it new without digital cable support and it is then removed when refurbished, and what is actually available. I'll know more tomorrow, stay posted!

http://lostincode.wordpress.com/2008/07/21/lost-in-dell-support-maze/

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that's not correct. I'm almost positive that there is at least one more person on TGB that has gotten a Dell from the outlet and has it working just like me. To me it doesn't make one bit of sense to "scrub" the key from the machine. Why would they bother to go through the trouble? Also, why would the item numbers for Vista be different among the different PCs?

Also, when I go in to look at my detailed order information on Dell's website it shows this:

1

YN974

Module,Software,VHP32 Dimension,English,DAO,Open Cable Uni-directional Receiver

This was how I figured out that YN974 was the OCUR version. Like I said, I have my doubts that what you're being told is correct. I guess there's no surefire way unless you or someone else bought another one with that item number for Vista. Good luck.

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jhale83:

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that's not correct. I'm almost positive that there is at least one more person on TGB that has gotten a Dell from the outlet and has it working just like me. To me it doesn't make one bit of sense to "scrub" the key from the machine. Why would they bother to go through the trouble? Also, why would the item numbers for Vista be different among the different PCs?

Also, when I go in to look at my detailed order information on Dell's website it shows this:

1

YN974

Module,Software,VHP32 Dimension,English,DAO,Open Cable Uni-directional Receiver

This was how I figured out that YN974 was the OCUR version. Like I said, I have my doubts that what you're being told is correct. I guess there's no surefire way unless you or someone else bought another one with that item number for Vista. Good luck.

That would be me. I purchased in February making sure to get YN974 and 3 GB of RAM. Mine was marked "Scratch and Dent" and so I assume it never even left the factory. I've even got the Radeon HD2400 video card that works fine with the right settings. (H.264/VC-1 acceleration using MPC-HC DirectShow filter works great too!)

They may have changed their policy since jhale and I ordered but if the Vista part number is YN974 I'd say odds are good it does have digital cable support.

Wow, what a nightmare. Read through the whole thing, even your chats. I'll never understand about a company as big as Dell, who promotes their higher end XPS systems, has no clue about the features on it or how they work.

This is clearly a joke, the reason I won't buy a Dell, sure they make an OK system but, if you have an issue, it's the luck of the draw..(who answers the phone)...

I wish you luck, personaly I would return the system, not worth the nightmare...

Maybe pick up the HP,there was a promo around a nicely spec'ed HP(cable card ready !) with a single ATI tuner for $699....

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Windows Vista Connected Exp:Home Theater for Sales professionals

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DavidinCT:

Wow, what a nightmare. Read through the whole thing, even your chats. I'll never understand about a company as big as Dell, who promotes their higher end XPS systems, has no clue about the features on it or how they work.

This is clearly a joke, the reason I won't buy a Dell, sure they make an OK system but, if you have an issue, it's the luck of the draw..(who answers the phone)...

I wish you luck, personaly I would return the system, not worth the nightmare...

Maybe pick up the HP,there was a promo around a nicely spec'ed HP(cable card ready !) with a single ATI tuner for $699....

Is that promotion still going on? If so, it might be helpful for others to post that information. That's an awesome price point.

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slykens:

jhale83:

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that's not correct. I'm almost positive that there is at least one more person on TGB that has gotten a Dell from the outlet and has it working just like me. To me it doesn't make one bit of sense to "scrub" the key from the machine. Why would they bother to go through the trouble? Also, why would the item numbers for Vista be different among the different PCs?

Also, when I go in to look at my detailed order information on Dell's website it shows this:

1

YN974

Module,Software,VHP32 Dimension,English,DAO,Open Cable Uni-directional Receiver

This was how I figured out that YN974 was the OCUR version. Like I said, I have my doubts that what you're being told is correct. I guess there's no surefire way unless you or someone else bought another one with that item number for Vista. Good luck.

That would be me. I purchased in February making sure to get YN974 and 3 GB of RAM. Mine was marked "Scratch and Dent" and so I assume it never even left the factory. I've even got the Radeon HD2400 video card that works fine with the right settings. (H.264/VC-1 acceleration using MPC-HC DirectShow filter works great too!)

They may have changed their policy since jhale and I ordered but if the Vista part number is YN974 I'd say odds are good it does have digital cable support.

I bought mine back in February as well so maybe they have changed the process since then. I still don't see what business sense it would make though. Why would you go through the trouble?

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Hey David, I'd love to see that promo too! (For that matter which HP model offers CableCARD support?) Thanks for the info...

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http://lostincode.wordpress.com

Wow what a deal. I'll keep my eyes out for a deal like that again, thanks for the info. I'm still hoping dell comes up with a product key, come'on Dell!

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jywang:

When they say it is available in all configurations, I think they mean that in all configurations in which you can customize your Dell, the OCUR tuner is available. But, you still have to select it and purchase the OCUR tuner from Dell to receive the proper BIOS and keys.

Previously, there were some configurations which may not have offerred OCUR. i.e. special bundled configurations that had some customizability but not for tv tuner.

Does this make sense to anyone else or maybe I’m the only one that can read between the lines here…

Hey John,
About having to purchase a tuner to get the BIOS and keys, I could understand that in this context, but considering that you cannot purchase a XPS 420 from Dell Home new and not get Digital Cable Support...the way it is advertised would make buying one new but requiring a tuner to get the support false advertising i think...I checked out HP and they purposefully make you change the OS when you add a tuner to your order, but Dell puts the support in there by default and doesn't allow you to take it away...

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jywang:

When they say it is available in all configurations, I think they mean that in all configurations in which you can customize your Dell, the OCUR tuner is available. But, you still have to select it and purchase the OCUR tuner from Dell to receive the proper BIOS and keys.

Previously, there were some configurations which may not have offerred OCUR. i.e. special bundled configurations that had some customizability but not for tv tuner.

Does this make sense to anyone else or maybe I’m the only one that can read between the lines here…

BTW, I don’t work for Dell, I’m just trying to offer a plausible explanation.

That said, here was the link I posted for the promo 11 days ago.  I think my m9300t with Q9450, NVidia 9500GS, and single ATI OCUR tuner worked out to 899.

http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/post/274575.aspx

I think that might be incorrect. If you go out to Dell's website to purchase a new XPS 420, all of the operating system selections have "w/ Digital Cable Support" at the end.

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Hi guys,

I can also confirm jhale83's method... in fact I have used it twice now (once for home and once for work--the work purchase was just last month) and I can also confirm the newer part number D256D is also DCT-ready and includes SP1 (as jhale83 surmised earlier in the thread). Here is the line from my invoice:

D256D

Module,Software,VHP32SP1 Consumer Desktop,English,Open Cable Uni-Directional Receiver

Both my systems were scratch & dent from the outlet... and both have the additional product key on the COA label on the back. However, I still don't have any OCUR tuners (I bought a couple on ebay but they haven't arrived yet). When they do, I will be very interested to try something...

If you search for OCUR-related posts on here you'll see some posts from people who indicated that they never had to enter the DCT product key during OCUR setup. Others have had to enter the key (but seems that usually these were people who wiped off the hard drive and reinstalled Vista from scratch). So, for the people who didn't have to enter a key, two scenarios are possible:

1. The OEM installed and activated the customer's actual key printed on the label before shipping the system out (unlikely, IMHO)

2. The OEM used a generic key to "preactivate" the functionality. This is exactly what Dell and the other royalty OEMs do with XP and Vista themselves. The key that the OS uses is not the same key that is printed on the COA... it's a special key that the OEM uses to bypass the normal activation process so long as it is used with files that identify the motherboard as belonging to that OEM.

Anyway, the reason I am eager to get my tuners is to do a test. My original XPS 420 system I have wiped off and reinstalled a retail copy of Ultimate that I got from attending a MS Server 2008 event. I presume that when I attach a DCT to that system I will be prompted to enter the digital cable product key from my label and then activate it.

However the newer system I got last month is still in the box and is running its factory-installed OS. If I plug a DCT into that system, will I get prompted to enter the key? Enquiring minds want to know :)

If I am not prompted to enter a key on that other XPS 420 then it is conceivable that Dell has used a SLP (system locked preinstallation) key to "preactivate" OCUR support and it would just be a matter of figuring out where that key is stored and what it is. Worse comes to worst the hard drive could be imaged and in theory could be used on another XPS 420 system.

Of course maybe the newer XPS 420 will ask for its product key (or hell, maybe Dell actually did input the actual key on the label before shipping it) but I am definitely interested in the outcome of this. If generic keys are being used it would certainly discredit the notion that CableLabs somehow has complete control over the VMC ecosystem and can disable individual machines if it sees fit. The only way I'd think they could accomplish that would be through disabling of product keys but if systems shipped from OEMs are using generic keys to "preactivate" then it's just a bunch of hooey.

So jhale83 or other XPS 420 owners, can you let us know if you ever had to enter your OCUR product key as part of the setup? And if so, were you using the original Dell OS or did you wipe the drive and reinstall?

Well I didn't try both methods so my info is limited. I had a copy of Vista Ultimate and I wanted to install it on my new PC so I went that route. I can't remember if I just did the upgrade or a completely fresh isntall though. I do seem to remember having to enter the key when going in to set up the tuners so I would say yes, it is required if you do a clean install or upgrade. Can't say whether it's required to enter the key with Dell's install.

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