PLUCKYHD:

Mikesm,

This is where people keep getting is wrong it wasn't Microsoft that $## cable card it was cable labs restrictions to have cable certified tuners that implemented the dvr that we see today. Microsoft is not 100% to blame on this one

Also those so quick to jump to sagetv what are you going to do if the directv option appears in the next 6 months? All the things said are based on "insiders" and speculationa and guessing nothing is firm. In fact somone posted saying the directv tuners are indeed in beta and they have seen it in action.

I am not saying the sagetv is a bad solution because I tried it and liked it but the interface is far far behind vista. Also the third partys apps like (video browser) which is the best just aren't present.

I still say to each his own and I am not trying to argue just present my view. (which is sometimes way off :)

 

 

The restrictions that cable labs puts on folks are large and onerous, no question.  But Tivo is also a certified cablecard product, but allows you to export almost anything that's recorded.  They do not let you do that if the CCI flags are set, but allow you to export (with no DRM) everything else.  MSFT does not let you export ANYTHING recorded via Cablecard, CCI bits set or unset.  You cannot tell me that MSFT is doing that because cablecard cert requires them to prevent export when Tivo allows export and has the same certification.  That does not compute.  Vablelabs is deserving of a lot of blame, but they are not guilty of half the restrictions that MSFT puts on cablecard.

Personally, if DirecTV support gets in VMC, I would say great, because competition is good for everyone.  I use SageTV because it is the best product that is the closest to meeting my needs.  If VMC met my needs better (and it would need a LOT of functionality improvements to do so), then I would switch to VMC like I switched to Sage from MCE.  I am not wed to a single solution, and I have used all of them in one form or another.  I think DirecTV's new MPEG4 based HD channels are better than cables, and I'd be willing to switch to VMC and DirecTV if it did what I wanted it to. 

I understand the criticism of the SageTV UI.  I agree VMC is "Sexier".  But it is no where near as functional, I and not a form over substance type of guy.  Personally (and others differ on this point), I think the default UI on SageTV is terrible, but the SageMC plugin is quite good, and eminently usable, and similar enough to enable me and many other former MSFT users to move to Sage without a  lot of family retraining.

Furthermore, Sage makes avialable it's development kit, Studio, which enables you to dramatically change the UI and develop plugins.  SageMC was developed using Studio, and is actually skinnable.  It is very possible for someone to put effort into it and create a VMC like UI for SageTV.  It's UI is completely morphable, and a much better platform than VMC from a functionality perspective.  It is not possible however, for someone (other than MSFT) to change the core fucntionality of VMC and make it have the same functionality as SageTV.  So you can see why so many folks put energy into SageTV and it's UI.  :-)

VMC is very pretty, but is lousy from a functionality and architecture perspective.  To me, it's like a trophy wife.  Very pretty, but terrible to live with in the long term, and never does what you'd like her to do...  :-)

cfaslave:

As you know, I'm a SageTV user and like it.  I'm curious what in the interface is behind vista.  Also, are you comparing to the default SageTV interface or the SageMC (user-developed) replacement interface or both?

I used the sagemc (the default is a nightmare and don't know how anyone could use it) I spent about 3 weeks customizing it and got it looking as good as I could. Downloaded a bunch of themese and user dev. apps. Still didn't come close to

a. pictures

b. music

c.movies

The interface was just terrible and not near as slick or robust as vist IMHO

cfaslave:

What is the video browser 3rd party app?  Also what other apps that you use in VMC are missing in SageTV?  I know one that is missing is the DVD app - there is one in SageMC, but it isn't as "robust".

Video browser is Sam's video browser's for dvd movies and a great interface for archived tv series. It looks so slick and so does the new open movie project all of them kill sagetv's default dvd interface.

cfaslave:

I'm mostly asking out of curiousity to know since I know you gave SageTV a try and didn't stay...

That is my opinion the functionality of sage is there but the interface did not come close to meeting my approval let alone the WAF. With the next customizer for vista menus I have now stripped everything we don't use and it looks great.

And the streaming dvd's is not a huge deal to me I just batch reconvert them using dvrms I don't get the menus but I get the movie and ff and rr easily.

The main dissapovement for me of hd-pvr's is having four boxes and finding somewhere to put the all. (2 hd-pvrs, 2 cable/sattelite boxes)

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Dell xps420 w/ dual ATI cable cards
Hdhomerun for QAM
Panasonic 50" Plasma fed by xbox 360
Panasonic 42" plama fed by xbox 360
3TB in storage and counting

Are you guys drunk when you are reading these posts?

With the R5000HD mod you can:

• record HD/SD from many satellite stbs (Dish, Direct, Starchoice, Bell, Voom)
• you use FireSTB software to put the recorded content into VMC
• it already works and is fully supported for Sage
• they have a beta driver available for VMC - VMC will see the modded stb as a virtual tuner where you can record ANY content to which you subscribe with no restrictions and also watch LIVE HDTV in VMC!
• they do not support any stb that has a firewire port at all due to legalities

It is a pricey solution but since I live in Canada, I have NO OTHER OPTION anyway.  I manage to record everything I want to watch in primetime with a single tuner by subscribing to 3 distinct feeds from 3 time zones.

The beta driver for VMC has quite a way to go yet but I have been using the FireSTB software (in conjunction with the R5000HD mod) in the meantime which works for me (no live HDTV, just SD, record HDTV/SD fine with backup copy).

Check their website for more details...

http://www.nextcomwireless.com/R5000/home.htm

Dude, you're in the MCE2005 forum! What about MCE2005 drivers? VMC, VMshmee!

Oops, didn't realize that...

Get with the times anyway - XP is a dodo now...

Besides, FireSTB & the R5000HD mod will work with old XP just fine anyway...

mikesm:

The restrictions that cable labs puts on folks are large and onerous, no question.  But Tivo is also a certified cablecard product, but allows you to export almost anything that's recorded.  They do not let you do that if the CCI flags are set, but allow you to export (with no DRM) everything else.  MSFT does not let you export ANYTHING recorded via Cablecard, CCI bits set or unset.  You cannot tell me that MSFT is doing that because cablecard cert requires them to prevent export when Tivo allows export and has the same certification.  That does not compute.  Vablelabs is deserving of a lot of blame, but they are not guilty of half the restrictions that MSFT puts on cablecard.

Come on Mike, your too smart to play this game.  You know that TiVo (UDCP) goes under different specs then OCUR.  Remind me who writes these specs again? (hint: It's not Microsoft).

Anyway, this functionality might be changing in the future.

---

Chris Lanier
The Green Button Forum Moderator

Chris - Moderator:

mikesm:

The restrictions that cable labs puts on folks are large and onerous, no question.  But Tivo is also a certified cablecard product, but allows you to export almost anything that's recorded.  They do not let you do that if the CCI flags are set, but allow you to export (with no DRM) everything else.  MSFT does not let you export ANYTHING recorded via Cablecard, CCI bits set or unset.  You cannot tell me that MSFT is doing that because cablecard cert requires them to prevent export when Tivo allows export and has the same certification.  That does not compute.  Vablelabs is deserving of a lot of blame, but they are not guilty of half the restrictions that MSFT puts on cablecard.

Come on Mike, your too smart to play this game.  You know that TiVo (UDCP) goes under different specs then OCUR.  Remind me who writes these specs again? (hint: It's not Microsoft).

Anyway, this functionality might be changing in the future.

No I'm not that smart.  :-) Are you saying microsoft tried to get a license under UDCP but was denied?

I believe that is correct Chris will let me know if it isn't :)

Cablelabs did not like the idea of hdtv in a computer nether does any broadcaster/provider.

---

Dell xps420 w/ dual ATI cable cards
Hdhomerun for QAM
Panasonic 50" Plasma fed by xbox 360
Panasonic 42" plama fed by xbox 360
3TB in storage and counting

mikesm:

No I'm not that smart.  :-) Are you saying microsoft tried to get a license under UDCP but was denied?

No, I'm saying that Media Center's with CableCARD are not UDCP but rather OCUR.  OCUR is the spec that CableLabs made just for PCs.  Thus the content protection and other regulations are specific to that spec.  TiVo isn't an OCUR, thus TiVo doesn't have the same content protection specs.  Media Center isn't UDCP, thus the physical tuners (aka OCURs) don't have the same content protection specs as TiVo.

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Chris Lanier
The Green Button Forum Moderator

Kingbuzzo:

Are you guys drunk when you are reading these posts?

With the R5000HD mod you can:

• record HD/SD from many satellite stbs (Dish, Direct, Starchoice, Bell, Voom)
• you use FireSTB software to put the recorded content into VMC
• it already works and is fully supported for Sage
• they have a beta driver available for VMC - VMC will see the modded stb as a virtual tuner where you can record ANY content to which you subscribe with no restrictions and also watch LIVE HDTV in VMC!
• they do not support any stb that has a firewire port at all due to legalities

It is a pricey solution but since I live in Canada, I have NO OTHER OPTION anyway.  I manage to record everything I want to watch in primetime with a single tuner by subscribing to 3 distinct feeds from 3 time zones.

The beta driver for VMC has quite a way to go yet but I have been using the FireSTB software (in conjunction with the R5000HD mod) in the meantime which works for me (no live HDTV, just SD, record HDTV/SD fine with backup copy).

Check their website for more details...

http://www.nextcomwireless.com/R5000/home.htm

This solution is not at all acceptable for HD (Network or Premium) from DirecTV. All of DirecTV's newer HD channels are Mpeg4, and they are gradually converting their older HD channels to Mpeg4. Any Mpeg4 channel can only work with STB's that are leased from DirecTV and not elligible for this hack.

I would imagine that Dish has the same incompatibilities with these STB's from the dark ages, but I'm no E* expert.

wrong:  http://www.nextcomwireless.com/R5000/mpeg4.htm

Kingbuzzo:

wrong:  http://www.nextcomwireless.com/R5000/mpeg4.htm

Meanwhile, in the REAL world...

Seriously, this information is divorced from reality. All of DirecTV's premium and local HD channels are both flagged as MPEG4 and actually encoded in MPEG4. If you do not have an HR20-700, HR20-100, HR21-100, HR21-700, H20, or H21, you will NOT be able to receive the majority of HD channels. Just ask any of the hundreds of people who are holding on to their HD DirecTivos (HR10-250s) whose biggest complaint is that they have to sacrifice HD Content for functionality and UI.

Even IF this hack will work on these antiquated receivers, there's no chance in hell that DirecTV will activate them on a customer's account. They would probably send you a leased HR21 for free before activating them.  And if you were to attempt this hack on one of those, then DirecTV will send you a bill for $600 for voiding the warranty on leased equipment.

I don't claim to be a Direct TV "expert" but I know what is working for me.

I have StarChoice in Canada (Motorola DSR330) which I believe is the "same" as Dish Network and it is working perfectly for me.

I purchased the receiver outright and mailed it off to be modded.  I would imagine there would be trouble if I sent it back for warranty repair but since its just a stupid de-scrambler, I'll take my chances!

If DirectTV is that draconian, maybe you should consider switching providers.  Who cares if it is mpeg2 or 4, as long as it is 1080i/720p, it is good enough for me.  All the extra channels have exactly the same programming (or non HD-content) anyway so who cares.

It may not be "the" solution for you, but it is a solution for VMC recording HD from sats.

PLUCKYHD:

Ps HD-PVR will be dead once cable and sattelite decide to downgrade component video out anyways.

This point is moot....

http://www.curtpalme.com/HDFury2.shtm

The HDfury² is on sale now ?!?

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