Do you feel the same way about Paint? Should MS provide PhotoShop functionality because it's part of the OS? If not, how is the "commitment" different?

I would if I'd paid extra for a version/edition of Windows which included paint as opposed to one which didn't. Especially if MS then released a PaintPack which added precisely that functionality but which was only available with a purchase of a new PC!

Matthew

Does anyone have a DVB-S card running with the TV pack add-on?

I was looking at getting the Compro E350

 

Also I did spot a small problem when I had a Blackgold 6-1 and the Compro E700 fitted, for some reason none of the channels would show a picture. it would seem that VMC would only use the 6-1 and not the E700 in the Guide / channel setup section and it wouldn't auto select a working card.

 

Either i have a duff 6-1 or the new Balckgold drivers for the TV pack don't work properly. 

---

Asus P5k Prem WiFI Motherboard
Intel 6600
4GB DDR2 RAM
MSI 8600 GT 256 RAM Fanless
Compro E700
Vista 64 + Windows Media Center TV Pack

adwtoronto:

I was able to convert the new .wtv recorded files to mpeg using DVRMSToolboxGUI.  It will report that the input file is not a DVR-MS file but it continues and once completed I had a .mpg file that played in Windows Media Player and also opened in my MPEG video editor.

I used my profile "Convert to Mpg with AVIVO".

 

adwtoronto

I tried this last night but it didn't work. Can you be more detailed in your process. Thanks.

tito

tito:

adwtoronto:

I was able to convert the new .wtv recorded files to mpeg using DVRMSToolboxGUI.  It will report that the input file is not a DVR-MS file but it continues and once completed I had a .mpg file that played in Windows Media Player and also opened in my MPEG video editor.

I used my profile "Convert to Mpg with AVIVO".

 

adwtoronto

I tried this last night but it didn't work. Can you be more detailed in your process. Thanks.

tito

http://babgvant.com/blogs/andyvt/archive/2008/08/07/scanning-unsupported-files-for-commercials.aspx

---

DVRMSToolbox, Recording Broker, LcdWriter, and more software
babgvant.com

hux360:

Octavean:

 

Right, this isn’t the first time I’ve heard this or something similar. I’m in the USA though so bear with me, does BBC-HD require H.264 stream support? Because if it does then that’s very encouraging news.

Yea it does. I'm sure its the cyberlink codec that's allowing this to happen. It's like vmc decides to try and use an external codec to decode BBC-HD. I'm not sure why I need to go such an elaborate route to get it working. Unfortunately my CPU is woeful at decoding HD that's why I bought a 3450HD but the only codec I can get working in VMC with hardware support is Arcsoft's which does a brillant job running at around 3% to 5% but for some reason did not work when I tried the BBC-HD trick...

I'm sooo confused

 

which cyberlink codec did you use as there are a few that show up

With everybody talking about other options to VMC, such as SageTV. Does anybody know of a way to still utilize an xbox360 as an extender? What format does SageTV use for its TV shows, will these be playable in the "Media" section of the Xbox if I shared out the recorded TV folder for Sage?

I, like everybody else, am getting irritated by MS because of their lack of ongoing updates for MC. I like the analogy of Paint, and like the rebuttle stated, "if I paid extra for the feature I would expect more", or something like that. I purchased Vista Home Premium for the sole intent of using MC. I put extra money down for this added functionality and now MS isn't doing anything to fix the bugs that are plaguing so many people. I mean bugs such as guide problems that I am having (thats another story).

People keep using the analogy of buying a car and driving off the lot and then the manufacturer puts in an added feature, should that feature now be installed in your car? In the car analogy I would agree, they should not. The thing is that in the past MS has provided added features as free "upgrades" through patches, look at the added functionality that XP SP2 offered.

I think that ultimately MS is so large they cannot see what is right under their nose. If they spent more money on development of their media center features they could have one hell of product and compete with SageTV. Like other people have said, I would gladly pay $10-$20 extra for MC if it means getting more functionality and quicker updates. But since it is bundled in the OS and they are relatively giving it away for free they don't see the benefit of doing fast updates. The market has already shown that people are willing to pay extra for the MC functionality, MS just needs to realize it.

Sorry for the rambling, but I felt somebody needed to hear it. Just my $0.02, leave the change on the counter.

That's the whole point.. I don't care if they want to charge a nominal fee for the "additional" features.. I want the opportunity to get the new features.. even in the car scenario.. just because GPS is now standard on new vehicles I may still purchase an add on component to give me the same functionality.  Give the current users TV Pack 2008 for $15 and state in the instructions clearly that they should do clean install ... people uncomfortable with that option wouldn't buy it.  Those of us who do would be willing to spend that nominal fee but I'm NOT willing to go out and buy a new computer for the sake of getting this minimal upgrade to the functionality.. Also I have no intention to ever buy a pre-built computer system so MS is just working their way to alienate me to the product so that in the future I chose to go with something else that doesn't depend solely on the OEM idiots. 

---

Vista MC x64 TVPack 2008 - 1.2TB 4GB Ram Core 2 Duo 3Ghz
2x AverMedia Combo PCIe OTA HD\
1x AverMedia A180 OTA HD
52" Samsung 5281F LCD
Xbox 360 Elite

I had tried to post a lengthy rebuttal last night, but the forum ate my words when I hit Post. I would say that as far as the Paint analogy...come on. Paint is an applet that requires zero investment to use and can easily be removed from the OS. MCE is a much more complex application that requires an investment in hardware to make it work as advertised and it is inextricably tied to the OS. It has one real purpose and that's to view TV via the PC. I don't need it to watch movies or videos or listen to music, I already have Windows Media Player to do those things.

M$ needs to either support it with regular updates or make it a standalone upgrade and remove it from the OS. The current model of support is just not working nor is it fair to the users, many who have been using it since it's inception and are still waiting for basic features.

---

HP M9300T HTPC
Vista Home Premium 64-bit
Q9300 2.5ghz Quad-core 1333mhz FSB
4gb DDR2 PC2-6400 RAM
ViXS PureTV-U 48B0 Tuner Card
Hauppauge HVR-2250 Tuner Card
nVidia 8600GT w/512mb DDR3 VRAM
Linksys WT160 Wireless N Router
Linksys DMA2200 Extender

CycleWriter:

I had tried to post a lengthy rebuttal last night, but the forum ate my words when I hit Post.

I had the same problem with the forum last night...  I hope that's another thing that gets resolved with the forum update.

CycleWriter:

I would say that as far as the Paint analogy...come on. Paint is an applet that requires zero investment to use and can easily be removed from the OS. MCE is a much more complex application that requires an investment in hardware to make it work as advertised and it is inextricably tied to the OS. It has one real purpose and that's to view TV via the PC. I don't need it to watch movies or videos or listen to music, I already have Windows Media Player to do those things.

M$ needs to either support it with regular updates or make it a standalone upgrade and remove it from the OS. The current model of support is just not working nor is it fair to the users, many who have been using it since it's inception and are still waiting for basic features.

I don't think they see them as different things.  Both are just applications that add value to the platform.  To be clear, I disagree with the strategy; but that doesn't mean it's bad strategy or that they are obligated to do anything.  Bottom line; if you don't like the direction MC is going (or not for that matter ;)) do something tangible about it.  As long as the only thing you're doing is complaining nothing is going to change.

---

DVRMSToolbox, Recording Broker, LcdWriter, and more software
babgvant.com

CycleWriter:

 It has one real purpose and that's to view TV via the PC. I don't need it to watch movies or videos or listen to music, I already have Windows Media Player to do those things.

Can I argue that this statement is a personal and subjective view on the aims of MCE, based on your own needs and wants from the MCE platform? I would counter that MCE doesn't have a primary aim in presenting a single digital media type to the end user, but is the start of a strategy to integrate as many media types as possible into a single hardware and software platform, whilst making the delivery mechanism/technologies as transparent to the user as possible.

So whilst we have MediaPlayer for music and videos and that may form a component of the MCE architecture for viewing those media types in MCE, they are more legacy applications, now superceded by the MCE interface. It just so happens that MS have used MediaPlayer components rather than re-writing the functionality for MCE specifically (with the extra expense this would incur). It also means that the music/video components are more mature than the TV side, which is still in its infancy to a certain extent and is undergoing a large volume of change with digital and HD content

I'm as frustrated as the next guy that all my available media types, including subscription based DVB-S and DVB-S2 (HD) are not fully integrated into the platform, but I wouldn't state that this should be the primary aim, just that it requires more work to get it to where music is now (not that music is fully developed into the platform yet).

CycleWriter:

M$ needs to either support it with regular updates or make it a standalone upgrade and remove it from the OS. The current model of support is just not working nor is it fair to the users, many who have been using it since it's inception and are still waiting for basic features.

Agree with you here 100% - I bought Vista Ultimate specifically for MCE and I would have bought Vista and any hypothetical standalone MCE package to go with it, even if that meant doubling my costs for the software. Of course that's provided it came with updates and support as new media types are integrated into the platform.

I wonder whether MCE could standalone though in the marketplace currently without the extra "sales" momentum gained from it being bundled with the OS.

Interestingly my other 6 machines (excluding my servers) remain firmly on XP Pro, as I can see no reason to upgrade them to Vista, unless the live TV element of the Vista MCE box in the lounge can be accessed across my network (video, music etc is already accessible by my XP machines). I think this is one area that MS should take note of as they are losing OS resales on over 85% of the possible Vista sales opportunities in my household....I wonder how many others here are in a similar position.

 

babgVant:

I don't think they see them as different things.  Both are just applications that add value to the platform.  To be clear, I disagree with the strategy; but that doesn't mean it's bad strategy or that they are obligated to do anything. 

If you're a company that cares even a little about customer satisfaction, then yes, it is a bad strategy.

Bottom line; if you don't like the direction MC is going (or not for that matter ;)) do something tangible about it.  As long as the only thing you're doing is complaining nothing is going to change.

Look around. I'm not the only one complaining. That's what M$ should take note of, the fact that I am not one solo voice. It has been postulated that one voice on the internet or one letter to customer service represents the feelings of about 10,000 customers. If even half that is true, there are a lot of disgruntled M$ customers they should be listening to besides me.

---

HP M9300T HTPC
Vista Home Premium 64-bit
Q9300 2.5ghz Quad-core 1333mhz FSB
4gb DDR2 PC2-6400 RAM
ViXS PureTV-U 48B0 Tuner Card
Hauppauge HVR-2250 Tuner Card
nVidia 8600GT w/512mb DDR3 VRAM
Linksys WT160 Wireless N Router
Linksys DMA2200 Extender

Washout:

Can I argue that this statement is a personal and subjective view on the aims of MCE, based on your own needs and wants from the MCE platform?

You can argue that all you like, but the reality is that for most MCE users, TV functionality is the only thing that it offers beyond Media Player.

---

HP M9300T HTPC
Vista Home Premium 64-bit
Q9300 2.5ghz Quad-core 1333mhz FSB
4gb DDR2 PC2-6400 RAM
ViXS PureTV-U 48B0 Tuner Card
Hauppauge HVR-2250 Tuner Card
nVidia 8600GT w/512mb DDR3 VRAM
Linksys WT160 Wireless N Router
Linksys DMA2200 Extender

CycleWriter:

babgVant:

I don't think they see them as different things.  Both are just applications that add value to the platform.  To be clear, I disagree with the strategy; but that doesn't mean it's bad strategy or that they are obligated to do anything. 

If you're a company that cares even a little about customer satisfaction, then yes, it is a bad strategy.

Bottom line; if you don't like the direction MC is going (or not for that matter ;)) do something tangible about it.  As long as the only thing you're doing is complaining nothing is going to change.

Look around. I'm not the only one complaining. That's what M$ should take note of, the fact that I am not one solo voice. It has been postulated that one voice on the internet or one letter to customer service represents the feelings of about 10,000 customers. If even half that is true, there are a lot of disgruntled M$ customers they should be listening to besides me.

I think you overvalue your anecdotal experience.  First you assume that MS sees you as it's customer, where they have demonstrated many times that we aren't the group they are interested in listening too; big OEMs drive feature development in Media Center (Fiji's deployment strategy is a perfect example of this).  Second, out of the millions of Windows (and supposed MC) users your voice, even assuming some sort of multiplier, is insignificant (as is mine). 

I've been using MC, and trying to make the experience better, for years; the crazy thing is that in the short time I've been using SageTV the relationship is more collaborative with them than with MS. 

Complaining has value to you, being listened to has value to me.  I hope MS listens, I want the experience to better for everyone; I think listening to the enthusiast community is the best way to ensure it, but I'm not holding my breath and I'm not waiting aronud while the feature gap gets bigger.

---

DVRMSToolbox, Recording Broker, LcdWriter, and more software
babgvant.com

MJF has posted an interesting set of articles (good one here) trying to clear up what Windows 7 is exactly. Sounds like it isn't Windows v.Next (think XP, Vista, 7) as the codename seems to indicate, but is instead an R2 and is expected the latter half of next year. It's just far out enough that it annoys me to have to wait for what I thought would be coming in the TV pack, but not so far out that I'm not ready to jump ship. It's the fine line balancing act of 'well, I've waited this long' and 'they said it was coming this time, not next time' for me. I assume this will be a paid update (the server OS R2 updates are), but I don't remember the 'client' OS's getting this kind of release before (analogous release example, anyone?). Anybody got thoughts about this?

SpoonsJTD:

MJF has posted an interesting set of articles (good one here)...

Nice link. Makes things clear as mud. It has been said in here and elsewhere that Windows 7 is slated for early 2010 release. I know Ballmer said summer 2009 in an interview, but anyone that believes that is oblivious to the history of software release dates issued by M$ heads and not their actual development teams. And even if it is ready in late 2009 or early 2010, given the debacle that is Vista, who in their right mind will be rushing out to buy it? Vista has been out over 18 months and is only now finding a user base primarily because OEMs are being forced to put it on new machines and have either dropped XP as a choice or are selling it from the shadows. You can't even find XP on the shelves at CC or Fry's anymore and it has nothing to do with their being no demand.

Unless Windows 7 has some real WOW! factor (and I don't mean something as insipid as Aero, I mean tangible performance improvements) it will make Vista look a Corvette instead of the Edsel it currently looks like.

BTW, I usually take anything MJF writes with a grain of salt. She's often inaccurate, confused or just plain wrong.

---

HP M9300T HTPC
Vista Home Premium 64-bit
Q9300 2.5ghz Quad-core 1333mhz FSB
4gb DDR2 PC2-6400 RAM
ViXS PureTV-U 48B0 Tuner Card
Hauppauge HVR-2250 Tuner Card
nVidia 8600GT w/512mb DDR3 VRAM
Linksys WT160 Wireless N Router
Linksys DMA2200 Extender