I'm not sure if anyone else has noticed this but yesterday I was using VMC with the TV pack and was kinda able to get BBC-HD working. I have not installed the timebombed decoder to enable H264 support from within VMC. I do however have PowerDVD 8 Ultra installed outside of VMC and have used the MPEG2 decoder utility to change VMC over to the cyberlink codecs.

I basically have two PCI tuner cards in my machine. One Nova-T-500 and the Nova-T-HD-S2, which seem to run well together if not a little slow to change channels between the tuners. I went on to BBC-HD last night (channel 899 I think) and sure enough I get the blue screen, saying audio only.

As expected it didn't work, so then I pressed 1 to change to BBC1 on dvb-t. Being new at this VMC thing I then pressed enter immediately after forgetting that this is actually a shortcut to the previous channel. So the tuner changed to BBC1 and then immediately changed back to BBC-HD... It then seemed to freeze and I waited about 20-25 seconds..... Then wham.... the BBC HD picture appeared!!!

Unfortunately my CPU is weak and can't handle hd output very well and was barely watchable, a quick look at my CPU usage showed high 80's early 90's, but alas I seemed to be receiving BBC-HD... I restarted VMC and tried the same process again and it seemed to work..

Has anyone else noticed this strange behaviour?

Angel of Death:

Hmm, maybe Still, with those bugs fixed and better tuner support, this should be a closed deal.

Well, aside from the availability issue - what's currently putting me off the TV Pack is that WebGuide no longer works. One of the reasons for going for a HTPC rather than a much cheaper STB PVR is the ability to stream the content to other computers in the house, and WebGuide fits the bill perfectly. It is worrying though that development on WebGuide has effectively stalled since Microsoft bought it out.

Angel of Death:

I noticed another thing as well. Channels that have previously not had EPG data now had. Why is that different?

One of the changes is that MC will now pulled EPG data from te broadcast stream itself (when available) rather than rely on a daily update from a web source. This has a number of advantages, one of which is that it means that scheduled recordings should accomodate last minute changes of schedule (e.g. if a sporting event overruns).

That and "red button" (MHEG) support are the two features which I'm most interested in (not least as ny STB PVR already have these features, and indeed had these features before XP MC came out!)

Matthew

mdovey:

That and "red button" (MHEG) support are the two features which I'm most interested in (not least as ny STB PVR already have these features, and indeed had these features before XP MC came out!) Matthew

I will say that the MHEG over DVB-T is amazingly fast. I've never seen anything like it and I've used a lot of different boxes/solutions. The interactive pages are instant, its how it always should have been.

I agree about the webguide, that's a big loss. I wanted to use it to schedule recordings when away from home etc. For streaming, I'm going to use my 360's and hopefully one of those Linksys extenders, so thats not such a loss for me.

hux360:

I'm not sure if anyone else has noticed this but yesterday I was using VMC with the TV pack and was kinda able to get BBC-HD working. I have not installed the timebombed decoder to enable H264 support from within VMC. I do however have PowerDVD 8 Ultra installed outside of VMC and have used the MPEG2 decoder utility to change VMC over to the cyberlink codecs.

I basically have two PCI tuner cards in my machine. One Nova-T-500 and the Nova-T-HD-S2, which seem to run well together if not a little slow to change channels between the tuners. I went on to BBC-HD last night (channel 899 I think) and sure enough I get the blue screen, saying audio only.

As expected it didn't work, so then I pressed 1 to change to BBC1 on dvb-t. Being new at this VMC thing I then pressed enter immediately after forgetting that this is actually a shortcut to the previous channel. So the tuner changed to BBC1 and then immediately changed back to BBC-HD... It then seemed to freeze and I waited about 20-25 seconds..... Then wham.... the BBC HD picture appeared!!!

Unfortunately my CPU is weak and can't handle hd output very well and was barely watchable, a quick look at my CPU usage showed high 80's early 90's, but alas I seemed to be receiving BBC-HD... I restarted VMC and tried the same process again and it seemed to work..

Has anyone else noticed this strange behaviour?

 

Right, this isn’t the first time I’ve heard this or something similar. I’m in the USA though so bear with me, does BBC-HD require H.264 stream support? Because if it does then that’s very encouraging news.

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i7 920 | ASUS P6T Deluxe | Triple-Channle DDR3 3x1GB | MSI GTX260 | Seagate 750GB | OCZ 600W Stealth X | LG GGW-H20L| XBox 360 | XBox 360 HD DVD Drive | HDHomeRun | Hauppauge HD PVR | Vista Home Premium

JeffTucker – MSFT:

lozenp:

Thanks Jeff, I appreciate your insight. My only question related to that is: how do I know what new PCs have the TV pack installed. Is there a list of manufacturers that are supporting it somewhere so I can be sure that my purchase has the TV pack? Is it being advertised?

OEMs will be announcing their plans at CEDIA, for the most part.  Other than that, you'd need to get that information directly from the OEMs.

Right now TV Pack is only supported on an install done by an OEM and to get that, you'd have to buy a machine.  Microsoft then supports the OEM for any issues concerning TV Pack, and the OEM supports the end user, correct?

Is there anything preventing an OEM from distributing an updated install disk with Vista & TV Pack for their existing customers and still have Microsoft's support behind them?  Are they breaking a license by doing so? 

 

If anyone has any doubt about what Microsoft's intentions were from day one with Fiji/TV Pack, I suggest you read this thread.

http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/thread/215752.aspx

Apparently, we were never going to get it as an update and MS just strung us along all these months. The leaking of it has an even more nefarious look to it now. Free technical feedback perhaps? I've read where they were unhappy with the beta testers. Why not leak it and get free feedback from a bigger group of willing and unsuspecting beta testers? Hmm....

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HP M9300T HTPC
Vista Home Premium 64-bit
Q9300 2.5ghz Quad-core 1333mhz FSB
4gb DDR2 PC2-6400 RAM
ViXS PureTV-U 48B0 Tuner Card
Hauppauge HVR-2250 Tuner Card
nVidia 8600GT w/512mb DDR3 VRAM
Linksys WT160 Wireless N Router
Linksys DMA2200 Extender

I fully expect to be able to purchase OEM editions of Vista including the TV Pack alongside a new harddrive or other hardware that qualifies you for OEM purchases.

CycleWriter:

...I've read where they were unhappy with the beta testers...

Perhaps they wouldn't have been [unhappy] if the beta program was better organized.

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ahelseth:

I fully expect to be able to purchase OEM editions of Vista including the TV Pack alongside a new harddrive or other hardware that qualifies you for OEM purchases.

Err.  Don't get your hopes up on that one.

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Chris Lanier
The Green Button Forum Moderator

TBH, I don't really care either way - those that want it will always find a way to get it (and install it). Legal or not. However, all previous versions of Media Center/Windows has been available as OEM "packages" alongside new hardware.

The only way I don't see this happening is if Microsoft keeps all the small OEMs out of the loop and don't produce generic OEM installation media. Sure, this could happen - but I highly doubt it.

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More importantly, the fact that they never intended to release Fiji/TV Pack as an update for existing MCE users tells me that we will almost assuredly not see further updates/improvements to MCE between now and the release of Windows 7. That is highly bothersome to me since that's at least a year and a half away.

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HP M9300T HTPC
Vista Home Premium 64-bit
Q9300 2.5ghz Quad-core 1333mhz FSB
4gb DDR2 PC2-6400 RAM
ViXS PureTV-U 48B0 Tuner Card
Hauppauge HVR-2250 Tuner Card
nVidia 8600GT w/512mb DDR3 VRAM
Linksys WT160 Wireless N Router
Linksys DMA2200 Extender

ahelseth:

The only way I don't see this happening is if Microsoft keeps all the small OEMs out of the loop and don't produce generic OEM installation media. Sure, this could happen - but I highly doubt it.

As most have seen by the leaked product, it is not a release for general installations.  I don't think you will find that the TV Pack applies to the general "OEM Windows" sales methods.  You also have to remember that Microsoft makes a ton of "OEM Only" products that you can't buy.  For example, Windows XP Embedded isn't for sale via newegg.  Windows Storage Server isn't either.

Bottem line, OEM only doesn't mean "avaiable via Windows OEM channels like Newegg".  Small OEMs are not limited as "small" companies like S1Digital, Fluid Digital, and Cannon PC have already annouced support for the TV Pack.

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Chris Lanier
The Green Button Forum Moderator

CycleWriter:

More importantly, the fact that they never intended to release Fiji/TV Pack as an update for existing MCE users tells me that we will almost assuredly not see further updates/improvements to MCE between now and the release of Windows 7. That is highly bothersome to me since that's at least a year and a half away.

What bothers me is that you got screwed, you are unhappy, but in the same sentence you still state that you don't want to wait until Windows 7, which is MSFT next product. If you are unhappy with the way MSFT is treating you why do you intend to buy the next version? What incentive does MSFT has to improve its service to its end users if they know that no matter what, the users will keep coming back for more?

Chris - Moderator:

As most have seen by the leaked product, it is not a release for general installations.  I don't think you will find that the TV Pack applies to the general "OEM Windows" sales methods.  You also have to remember that Microsoft makes a ton of "OEM Only" products that you can't buy.  For example, Windows XP Embedded isn't for sale via newegg.  Windows Storage Server isn't either.

Bottem line, OEM only doesn't mean "avaiable via Windows OEM channels like Newegg".  Small OEMs are not limited as "small" companies like S1Digital, Fluid Digital, and Cannon PC have already annouced support for the TV Pack.

I don't think "most" have seen that at all. In fact, 90% of the people I have talked to [that have installed the leaked build] have done so on their existing machine without any issues. The remaining 10% have installed it on a fresh SP1 installation as specified by the buildnotes, and again no issues.

You're right with regards to certain software not being available, but I believe, as long as there is a physical installation media available for Fiji, that we'll find it with the usual suspects. I remember XP MCE which was only supposed to be OEM installed - I grabbed my copy alongside a harddrive as soon as it was available. Were the sellers in breach of contract or license? I don't know, but looking thru the general blurb available to us OEMs I doubt it.

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youre kidding right?

no issues?

thats like saying there are no other threads in the forums but this one

ahelseth:

I don't think "most" have seen that at all. In fact, 90% of the people I have talked to [that have installed the leaked build] have done so on their existing machine without any issues. The remaining 10% have installed it on a fresh SP1 installation as specified by the buildnotes, and again no issues.

Just look at the installer and you can tell this isn't going to be packaged on a CD and sold as a product anytime soon.

ahelseth:

You're right with regards to certain software not being available, but I believe, as long as there is a physical installation media available for Fiji, that we'll find it with the usual suspects. I remember XP MCE which was only supposed to be OEM installed - I grabbed my copy alongside a harddrive as soon as it was available. Were the sellers in breach of contract or license? I don't know, but looking thru the general blurb available to us OEMs I doubt it.

Sadly, I think your conclusion is incorrect and I truly wouldn't get to excited about that happening.  Selling MCE 2005 was perfectly fine, but that was made available to System Builders (general term of very small "OEMs", aka the kid down the street who builds PCs).

If you look at other releases that are "OEM only" products that are not for the "System Builder" market (XPe, Storage Server, dozens of others) you will see what I'm getting at.

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Chris Lanier
The Green Button Forum Moderator