Home Blogs Forums Dev Community Feedback

Chris Lanier's Blog

News, Analysis, and Opinion on Microsoft Digital Media Technologies (and TGB News!)

Microsoft Unprepared for Digital TV Switch

Reports suggest that the Digital TV switch in the US went by with little confusion or problems.  Of course, if you rely on Windows Media Center your experience likely wasn’t in line with those reports.  Ben said the transition is causing grief for Media Center users, but for most that might be an understatement. 


Microsoft seemed to think they were prepared; after all they deployed a nice Service Alert tile in Media Center on the 9th that explained the issue.  What they didn’t do is update their servers and other online components to reflect the frequency changes that came with the switch.  Unlike most setups, Media Center replies on online data instead of communication with the ATSC broadcasters.  Microsoft is aware of the issue and seems to be making progress in various places, however this is one of those key updates that Microsoft had loads of time to prepare for and when the switch came it caused mass confusion among users.


The interim fix for the issue in Windows Media Center is to edit the atscchannels.xml file in C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\eHome\EPG\prefs with the updated frequencies.  You can find those frequencies at various websites including TV Fool (just input your zip code) and the FCCs own database.  You can also delete the atscchannels.xml and manually create the channels within Media Center.  To do this navigate to Settings > TV > Guide > Add Missing Channels.  The frequency is the same as the “real” number shown in the TV Fool website.  Doing this manually requires you to assign the EPG listings to the channel through Settings > TV > Guide > Add Listings to Channel.

Published Jun 14 2009, 05:22 PM by Chris - Moderator

Comments

 

djp952 said:

FYI, I have some very basic instructions for adding the channels back for TV Pack (and probably Win7) posted here: http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/permalink/367995/367998/ShowThread.aspx#367998.  

There is no atscchannels.xml in TVPack/Win7.

And yes, there is no way my mother (or my wife) would have been able to do this and would basically have thrown the PC out of the window by now.  How hard can it be to go enter new frequency data into the Zap2It database?  They screwed it up a number of times this year on me by jumping too soon, now when it counts the data is nowhere to be found.

I'm starting to agree with you Chris, Media Center is rapidly becoming less and less important to Microsoft...
June 14, 2009 4:46 PM
 

josephandrews222 said:

djp wrote:

" They screwed it up a number of times this year on me by jumping too soon, now when it counts the data is nowhere to be found. "

That happened to me, too.
June 14, 2009 8:48 PM
 

jmallory07 said:

It obvious that while Microsoft may have some brilliant developers.  No one understands the technical side of Television broadcasting.  I no if I spent big money on having an integrator setup my media center for ATSC and then on cutover day, this happened...I'd be an unhappy customer.  A little knowledge on Microsoft's part would have saved their "partners" a lot of embarrassment and grief.
June 15, 2009 2:06 PM
 

flamingwoodchuck said:

Has anyone heard a word from Microsoft, Zap2it, or any partners?   I'm stunned that I haven't found a single response from them, either here or otherwise!
June 15, 2009 4:45 PM
 

walkabt said:

All fixed for Phoenix now.  Had to redo the guide data to get the adjustments out, but all well here.  I figured it was going to take a day or two so I didn't get hung up, but agree this should have been a simple one to get ready.  Channel was XX on Friday, now YY on Saturday...
June 15, 2009 5:46 PM
 

fullerdf said:

If Yahoo TV listings can get all the channels and subchannels right and have the right program schedules for even the subchannels, why can't Microsoft.

I have been trying for over a year now to use Media Center in a home theater PC.  This is not a new technology or a new problem.  The data is apparently available to Titan, Yahoo, satellite, cable companies, news papers and many other services.

Microsoft has just about convinced me to use Ubuntu and MythTV ... permanently.  If my experiment in that direction goes well (and it is so far), I bet a lot of others do likewise.

Are we witnessing the death of Windows computing?  Ubuntu just works.  I didn't want to find that out but ... oh well, if MS insists, I'll just have to accomodate.  
June 15, 2009 6:52 PM
 

FSUGrad1999 said:

"Are we witnessing the death of Windows computing?"
Yes, it sure seems like Windows is slowly dying.  Hopefully Win7 will make a big splash and everyone will like it...  The bad press with Vista really hurt...   and it doesn't help that Apple's ads are very creative (and convincing)...

At least the Xbox 360 is pretty kick ass.... other than the RRoD thing, I think its the best console to date...  esp when you tack on XBL...   although I think ALL of the content for sale on XBL is overpriced....  esp the video rentals and gamerpics.
June 17, 2009 8:50 AM
 

DeaneG said:

Looks like it's fixed now.
June 17, 2009 8:54 AM
 

ThommyG said:

I'm having a similar but not identical problem.  System Vista Ultimate 32 bit; Hauppauge 1800;  HD was working fine in the Minneapolis area.  On 6/12 I lost four HD channels.  After rescanning three local channels receive no signal,and the  atscchannels.xml file entries for these channels is correct (based on TVFool and FCC websites.  

Any ideas?
June 17, 2009 8:48 PM
 

Chris - Moderator said:

You likely are not using a VHF antenna.
June 18, 2009 1:45 PM
 

rob.ireland said:

@   FSUGrad1999 said:
> Hopefully Win7 will make a big splash and everyone will like it...  The bad press with Vista really hurt...


For the record, I've grown to hate Window over the years .. Been using it since the 1st version of Win95 and usually spend more time fixing/troubleshooting it than doing anything with it. What with lockups, data corruption, don't get me started on the Virus/spyware/malware/security issues, and I've ever liked the aesthetics of Vista/7 's Media Center over XP's (personal preference).

but ...  I'm running Win 7 RC1 (Release Candidate 1/ AKA pre-release) now and it's looking REALLY  good so far, and MS wants to put it out by the fall.

It's very stable (finally), very quick (compared to Vista and ME (Mistake Edition :) ), and it's been said that it even runs surprisingly well on a Netbook (very under-powered $300 + small laptop. ) Don't even try installing Vista on a netbook.

After, what... 14 years, I think Microsoft just might have gotten it right this time,
June 18, 2009 6:49 PM
 

ThommyG said:

I"m using a fairly nice HDTV antenna mounted in the attic.... was working perfectly for these channels -- which remain unchanged pre/post conversion.  Virtually all of the follwoing channels appear at 63/65 degrees from my location... and were gettiing full signal ... now ZIP.  

My zip is 55345
June 18, 2009 7:40 PM
 

Chris - Moderator said:

Assuming the three missing channels are KARE-DT, KMSP-DT, and WUMN-CA then you need most likely just don't have a VHF antenna.
June 19, 2009 5:18 AM
 

ThommyG said:

I have the Terk HD-TVS Slim Profile Out Door HDTV Antenna Amplified VHF / UHF HD Antenna High-Band 12 dB Gain TV Digital Analog High Definition, Best Outdoor Aerial System, BLUE ZONE.  I'm not in the Blue Zone (green).  I was getting these channels and then lost them.

That said,  I'm not getting signal on KARE and KMSP even when connecting the antenna directly to the TV.  What with that?
June 19, 2009 7:50 AM
 

johnmorton said:

Let's not be so hard on MS about MC - Yes, it would have been great to have the guide data working on day one of the switch - However, the minor problem I face with guide data is in no way worth switching to something else - I have tried Myth, Sage, Ubuntu, Linux MC, and even gave Apple a try with Front Row - none of these offered the ease of use, easy online support, easy setup and comprehensive access to TV, DVD (including ripped), Music, Radio, web content, Netflix (via plugin), now Hulu (via hacked plugin), and archived media (via Media Browser), plus the ability to sync from MC to my Windows Mobile phone - Man
June 19, 2009 4:13 PM
 

monkeydeathsonic said:

I _love_ this platform - when it works. However, it has become clear to me over the past year that MS has no desire to take it as seriously. This goes from support to OEM relationships to development. I'm putting MC on death watch. And now I get harsh: Whatever crack team of morons are running the MC show right now, they need to get their s**t in gear and at least support what they have in the field - new development be damned. I've been a huge MS supporter throught my 16 year IT career on both residential and business sides of the house, but experiences like I've had with MC are telling me that I'm on the wrong side of the fence. While apple doesn't have a very good MC competing product, they are certainly taking things very seriously with regard to media distribution and availability in the home. By comparison, MS has laid down and died.
June 21, 2009 8:49 AM
 

uncle_rek said:

I live in Southern California and am having a problem with CBS flagship station (KCBS).  The station shifted to frequency 43 for the conversion.  I don't think Microsoft has picked that up in the Guide yet.  I am using Media Center in XP 2005.

If I click a program in the guide on KCBS I get "no TV signal".  I found an interesting work around.  I created a dummy channel with a dummy name assigned to the KCBS frequency (43).  When I scan the digital channel signal strenght I get all green bars on the dummy channel and a red bar (no signal) on the real KCBS.

To watch KCBS, I click on the dummy channel and get the "no TV signal" message.  But when I click on a program in the Guide for the real KCBS I go right to the program.  Of course, this makes unattended recording impossible.

Any way Microsoft can fix this sometime soon?
June 22, 2009 6:29 PM
 

fullerdf said:

Well things are improving ... a little.  My missing channel has been found ... at last.  But sub-channel data in the guide is still bogus (even though Yahoo and many other sources seem to be able to get it right).

I think the missing channel was due to a conflict between MC and MCEBuddy.  You may want to check it if you are using MCEBuddy.

I have been using an open source tool called MCEBuddy to convert and compress the recorded videos.  It works in the background doing conversions in the middle of the night and it also does a fairly good job of automatically deleting commercials.  The resulting files can be copied to a data DVD for replay later on any computer with the right codecs.   Each DVD can have about 4 hours of HD programming.

I think the missing channel conflict was corrected when I deleted some files in the Public Video folder.  I found some file remnants (that I had deleted at the Recorded Video page of MC) that were still in the public video folder.   When I checked MCEBuddy, it was stuck converting a file that I thought had been deleted.  I stopped the conversion process, deleted the file and restarted MCEBuddy.  Suddenly the missing channel started working.  Hopefully this little note will help a few others that may be having similar problems.

Ahhh  .... the mysteries of technology.
June 23, 2009 1:45 PM
 

fullerdf said:

Note that I was recieving the missing channel on three other tuners (2 converter boxes with rabbit ears and a HD TV that was connected to the same attic antenna as the Media Center's tuner).  Thus I felt it reasonable to assume that signal strength or antenna was not an issue (even though the missing channel had no (zero) green bars in the signal strength scan by MC while all other channels had maximum (5 or so) green bars).

MCEBuddy is set to convert recordings to the H.264 format for those that are curious (other settings are available).  About 5 or six episodes of "24" fit on a single DVD vs 1 or 2 for the native format of MC.  According to the developer, "Almost no visible difference from the source recording, sometimes better.  If you are intending to play back only on the Media Center PC, another PC or an Apple device this is definitely the way to go."
June 23, 2009 2:14 PM
 

uncle_rek said:

KCBS-2 in Los Angeles is STILL not working.  The frequency should be 43 and the Guide must still have not been updated.  Most interesting is the listings for KCBS-2 have vanished ("No Data Available").

Come on Microsoft.  Let's get it right!
July 1, 2009 12:57 PM
 

fullerdf said:

And by comparison TitanTV.com, Yahoo.com and iGoogle.com all have the correct listings for all 26 or so channels/subchannels available in Dallas.  However, Microsluf Mediea Center (or MSN.com for that matter) has only the major channels in their guide (no subchannels).  No wonder MSN was always lagging behind.

Maybe that's all the boys and girls in Redmond can do when they stop for a coffee break every 30 minutes or so.  If that is all cable and satellite companies could do, how many DVRs would customers send back for a refund?  If it were not so sad and agravating ... it would be funny.
July 1, 2009 1:27 PM
 

uncle_rek said:

KCBS-2 -- the Los Angeles flagship station in LA is still showing up in the Guide without listings ("No Data Available").  And the frequency is wrong ... it should be 43.

Come on Microsoft. Let's hop to it and get this right ... this isn't PODUNKVILLE USA, this is LA and this is the CBS flagship station.  Cool it on the coffee breaks and make it happen already.  Its been THREE WEEKS!!
July 1, 2009 7:16 PM


Terms of Service | Privacy Statement | Code of Conduct | About